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Post by delap on Feb 14, 2021 10:15:03 GMT -5
Initial Rankings - PreSeason
Looks like we are getting a big infusion of shot-blocking in this first class... but maybe not as much offensive firepower as one would hope for some teams. That said, this list is notably missing the #1 overall pick, Mr. Clyde Drexler, who spent the PreSeason riding the pine in central Indiana.
1. Antoine Carr - Philadelphia 76ers The 2nd leading scorer of the class, with Top 10 efficiency, Carr looks to immediately be an impact player in Philly. He rebounds well and doesn't turn it over. He isn't a shot-blocker, but he created a solid amount of steals in the exhibition games, so he's not a defensive sieve.
2. Dale Ellis - Philadelphia 76ers The other hot, young thing in Philadelphia, Ellis is 3rd in scoring and doing it at a better P/TSA than his buddy Antoine Carr. Rebounding isn't amazing, but not a weakness... but he seems to be a zero on defense. Turnovers aren't a major issue given his high usage.
3. Ralph Sampson - Portland Trail Blazers About as good as you could hope for any human named "Ralph". Sampson leads all rookies in P/TSA and rebounding, while putting up a respectable shooting volume. He's the 2nd best defender of the group as well. All of his upgrades need to go into fixing his turnover problem.
4. Manute Bol - Philadelphia 76ers The last member of the "Brotherly Love Brotherhood", Bol enters as possibly the best defensive big in the league. He doesn't do much else, but he leaves the scoring (and some rebounding) to Carr/Ellis while he just blocks nearly every shot at the rim. He's not efficient, but that doesn't matter because he doesn't shoot. He also doesn't turn it over, so the Sixers will live with that.
5. Steve Stipanovich - Carolina Cougars 6. Sidney Green - Sacramento Kings A pair of score-first, score-often bigs who have obvious deficiencies on the defensive end. Stip gets the leg-up on Sid right now because of a much lower TO rate and a higher P/TSA.
7. Russell Cross - Brooklyn Nets 8. Granville Waiters - Phoenix Suns 9. Tom Piotrowski - San Antonio Spurs A trio that makes the list now... But I'm not confident about their long-term prospects. They could easily lose their spot as Drexler/a few of the HMs really start to shine in a bigger sample. They are all good rebounders and well-above average on defense. They score a little well, but not with hyper-efficiency. Cross has the best chance of hanging around the ladder, though... so he gets the top spot.
10. Derek Harper - Sacramento Kings Narrowly edging out Byron Scott and Doc Rivers, Harper looks to be the leading PG of the class. He needs to take better care of the rock, but we've seen many-a-point-guard get appreciably better in that regard over the sim years. He's efficient enough, but his FT% needs to improve (luckily that should improve naturally to some degree.)
Honorable Mentions:
Points: Byron Scott - Golden State Warriors Doc Rivers - Chicago Bulls
Wings: Jon Sundvold - San Antonio Spurs Leo Rautins - Texas Chaparrals John Pinone - Dallas Mavericks Rodney McCray - San Antonio Spurs Jim Thomas - Toronto Raptors
Bigs: Winfred King - Los Angeles Clippers Mark West - Orlando Magic Ron Crevier - Orlando Magic Thurl Bailey - Los Angeles Lakers
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IanBoyd
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Post by IanBoyd on Feb 14, 2021 10:34:31 GMT -5
Some serious Michael "Bolton" Holton disrespect ITT
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irush
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Post by irush on Feb 14, 2021 10:37:45 GMT -5
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Post by 20s on Feb 14, 2021 10:38:35 GMT -5
Is potential considered in these or is it just based off what they are right now?
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Post by delap on Feb 14, 2021 10:40:30 GMT -5
Is potential considered in these or is it just based off what they are right now? I do consider potential as one of many factors, yes. |
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Post by delap on Feb 14, 2021 10:42:50 GMT -5
Some serious Michael "Bolton" Holton disrespect ITT
3.7 to/36... .939 P/TSA
That's gonna be a 'no' from me, dawg
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Post by skrouse on Feb 14, 2021 10:48:44 GMT -5
More honorable mentions for the Magic :like:
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Post by Druce on Feb 14, 2021 10:51:23 GMT -5
Feel like I’d take Sidney Lowe over Harper
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Post by 20s on Feb 14, 2021 10:56:01 GMT -5
Feel like I’d take Sidney Lowe over Harper Derek Harper 1 PG 36 35.1 15.6 3.8 10.5 1.3 0.2 3.3 .459 .667 .385 1.055 18.8 Sidney Lowe 1 PG 43 21.6 8.7 3.4 8.8 1.4 0.1 3.3 .474 .739 .250 1.041 12.7 Both numbers per 36 |
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Post by Druce on Feb 14, 2021 10:57:38 GMT -5
Feel like I’d take Sidney Lowe over Harper Derek Harper 1 PG 36 35.1 15.6 3.8 10.5 1.3 0.2 3.3 .459 .667 .385 1.055 18.8 Sidney Lowe 1 PG 43 21.6 8.7 3.4 8.8 1.4 0.1 3.3 .474 .739 .250 1.041 12.7 Both numbers per 36 Close enough for me to take the A pot guy |
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Post by Dirt on Feb 14, 2021 11:03:33 GMT -5
Rodney McCray disrespected
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 11:24:04 GMT -5
russell cross seems clearly a step above the other two guys you lumped him in with based on the preseason numbers.
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mazunga
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Post by mazunga on Feb 14, 2021 14:14:56 GMT -5
You just forgot about Darrell Walker or is the disrespect intentional? More efficient than Harper and less turnovers. Similar volume.
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Post by delap on Feb 18, 2021 11:30:41 GMT -5
Day 40 Update1. Dale Ellis - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 2)Jumps his teammate by virtue of leading all rookies in P/TSA and scoring. Defensive metrics and rebounding could be stronger, but that is a minor nit to pick with this rookie. TOs need to come down, but the rest of his game is great.  2. Clyde Drexler - Indiana Pacers (previous: NR)After eschewing the pre-season, Drexler is here to fight for the top spot. Rebounding and defense are solid (better than Ellis) and he has elite scoring volume, too. He falls at 2nd because of similar TO issues to Ellis and significantly worse efficiency at this juncture (.19 fewer p/tsa).  3. Ralph Sampson - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: 3)
4. Antoine Carr - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 1)After the wings come the bigs. These two have incredibly similar outputs so far, but Sampson is slightly better than Carr in every stat except TOs, so he gets the nod for now. These are the last of the elite elite players in the class and the drop to spots 5 and below is pretty big.   5. Winfred King - Los Angeles Clippers (previous: HM)A much better showing so far in the regular season than in the pre-season, King looks like a well-rounded big who does a little bit (or even a bit more) of everything. 2nd among all rooks in rebounding is nothing to be ashamed of. I don't think he has All-Star potential in the future, but he should absolutely be a long-time starter at one of the big spots for quite a while.  6. Manute Bol - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 4)I'll get crap about it from some, but Bol is already in contention for the best defensive player in the league, leads the entire league in blocks, and has A potential. Bol is here to stay and will be one of the best rookies in this class. His efficiency is crap, but it really doesn't matter because he NEVER shoots. He also doesn't turn it over, which is nice.  7. Byron Scott - Golden State Warriors (previous: HM)Byron grabs the lone PG spot on the ladder for this update, sending Derek Harper tumbling to the HM area. High-scoring on decent efficiency and low TOs for a lead guard, Scott should be a solid player for years to come.  8. Steve Stipanovich - Carolina Cougars (previous: 5)
9. Sidney Green - Sacramento Kings (previous: 6)All offense, no defense bigs who are putting up great scoring and not much else, Stip and Green are solidly on the ladder, but don't have much hope of getting higher without some major improvements. Stip is a better rebounder and takes care of the ball, so he remains ahead of Green. I have some suspicion that some of Green's scoring volume is attributable to his crappy teammates.   10. Thurl Bailey - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: HM)Winfred King without the scoring volume... but that's still pretty good! If he gets some points into inside/jumpshot he could end up being a very, very good player.  Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Michael Holton - Los Angeles Clippers
Derek Harper - Sacramento Kings
Stewart Granger - Charlotte Bobcats
Wings:
Kenneth Lyons - Washington Bullets
Ken Austin - Seattle SuperSonics
Randy Wittman - Seattle SuperSonics
Bigs:
Roy Hinson - Los Angeles Lakers
Tom Piotrowski - San Antonio Spurs
Brant Weidner - Toronto Raptors
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Post by Majic on Feb 18, 2021 12:08:26 GMT -5
Ellis should be 4th in my opinion.
I would take Drexler, Sampson and Carr before him.
His efficiency is outstanding but its barely higher than Sampson (1.282 vs 1.223), plus Sampson, Carr and Drexler all offer more in other areas to offset his efficiency advantage.
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Post by TinyTimPig on Feb 18, 2021 12:12:41 GMT -5
Ellis should be 4th in my opinion. I would take Drexler, Sampson and Carr before him. His efficiency is outstanding but its barely higher than Sampson (1.282 vs 1.223), plus Sampson, Carr and Drexler all offer more in other areas to offset his efficiency advantage. .06 is a huge gap IMO. It's the same as the gap between Luke Maye and Bootsty Thornton. |
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Feb 18, 2021 12:14:08 GMT -5
I think Carr is the best Rookie.
If your factoring long term potential high in the rankings I think I go.
1)Drexler
2)Carr
3)Ellis
4)Sampson
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Post by Majic on Feb 18, 2021 13:20:16 GMT -5
Ellis should be 4th in my opinion. I would take Drexler, Sampson and Carr before him. His efficiency is outstanding but its barely higher than Sampson (1.282 vs 1.223), plus Sampson, Carr and Drexler all offer more in other areas to offset his efficiency advantage. .06 is a huge gap IMO. It's the same as the gap between Luke Maye and Bootsty Thornton. Fair point. I guess the difference for me is that none of them have bad, or even average, efficiency. Drexler has the worst p/tsa at the moment but I would still take him over Ellis since he has more of a complete game. I am not sure how much Delap factors in future potential but I also think that's a factor. Drexler should obviously grow and get even better (hopefully) while Sampson and Carr are pretty set and should keep up similar stats for a long time. Ellis scores but if/when the league's overall defense improves it could drop off and he doesn't have other elite traits to make up for it. Fact of the matter is that all 4 of these guys are really good and we are just nitpicking. Fun debate though regardless. |
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Feb 18, 2021 13:23:12 GMT -5
I’m not sure the defense in the league is ever going to catch up to the point where Ellis doesn’t stay elite.
Will be fun to monitor.
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Post by TinyTimPig on Feb 18, 2021 13:23:59 GMT -5
I am not sure how much Delap factors in future potential but I also think that's a factor. Delap factors in whatever the f*** he wants to get the most possible Pittsburgh Condors on the ladder. |
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Post by Majic on Feb 18, 2021 13:25:44 GMT -5
I am not sure how much Delap factors in future potential but I also think that's a factor. Delap factors in whatever the f*** he wants to get the most possible Pittsburgh Condors on the ladder.  |
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Post by 20s on Feb 18, 2021 15:19:18 GMT -5
I feel disrespected that Stip and Green are being lumped together.
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irush
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Post by irush on Feb 18, 2021 15:20:12 GMT -5
I feel disrespected that Stip and Green are being lumped together. shhh |
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Post by Yawn of the Dead on Feb 18, 2021 15:49:54 GMT -5
I really want Delap to do 10 year retrospectives called the
Ladder Day Saints
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Post by delap on Feb 18, 2021 20:56:28 GMT -5
I really want Delap to do 10 year retrospectives called the Ladder Day Saints I will do this and you will get executive producer credit |
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Post by delap on Feb 22, 2021 17:54:25 GMT -5
Day 90 Update (Sorry I missed Day 80, life been busy)1. Dale Ellis - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 1)Iron grip on the top spot. Incredible efficiency (1st), 2nd in WS, and TOs are moving down.  2. Ralph Sampson - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: 3)Narrowly edges out Clyde for #2 at this juncture. Turnovers are still a problem, but he's incredibly efficient, plays solid defense for a rookie, and leads all rookies in WS.  3. Clyde Drexler - Indiana Pacers (previous: 2)The ceiling is higher for Drex, so he gets the nod over Carr at this point. Fantastic volume scorer, but needs to be a touch more efficient and a better steward of the ball. Should settle into being decent on defense via a high steal rate in a few years.  4. Antoine Carr - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 4)No change for Carr here, he's a fantastic looking player, but his crappy defensive skills will ultimately keep him from being an MVP contender, which I believe the 3 above him will all be in the coming years.  5. Steve Stipanovich - Carolina Cougars (previous: 8)6. Winfred King - Los Angeles Clippers (previous: 5)Nearly identical outputs so far, but Stip is shooting more frequently (both have very solid P/TSA) and turning it over less. Would still love to see either of them block a shot, but you can't always get what you want.   7. Manute Bol - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 6)This guy though, he'll block a shot or 4. His efficiency has even crept above 1.0 P/TSA.  8. Byron Scott - Golden State Warriors (previous: 7)Top 5 in the league in PG WS... not shabby. Looks great at everything except for rebounding, which is excusable in a PG.  9. Sidney Green - Sacramento Kings (previous: 9)All scoring, not really anything else. Green makes the list because his scoring really might be elite... but his TOs are a big problem and he doesn't do anything else well.  10. Randy Wittman - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: HM)Long-time HMer, 1st time on the ladderer. Very efficient wing, good scorer, but like Green... can't keep his mitts on the rock.  Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Michael Holton - Los Angeles Clippers
Derek Harper - Sacramento Kings
Rod Foster - Chicago Stags
Stewart Granger - Charlotte Bobcats
Wings:
Ken Austin - Seattle SuperSonics
Rodney McCray - San Antonio Spurs
Bigs:
Chris McNealy - Phoenix Suns
Tom Piotrowski - Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by 20s on Feb 22, 2021 17:57:51 GMT -5
delap you have Scott's stats listed again under Sidney Green
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Post by TinyTimPig on Feb 22, 2021 17:58:25 GMT -5
Really surprised to see McCray drop off.
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Post by delap on Feb 22, 2021 18:02:18 GMT -5
delap you have Scott's stats listed again under Sidney Green oopsie poopsie...
fixing it now
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Post by 20s on Feb 22, 2021 18:05:18 GMT -5
| Player | Points | Rebs | Ast | Stl | Blk | TO | FG% | FT% | 3P% | Pts/TSA | PER | | Antoine Carr | 31.4 | 11.8 | 3.1 | 1.0 | 0.3 | 2.2 | .509 | .835 | .412 | 1.155 | 29.4 | | Steve Stipanovich | 29.2 | 11.1 | 2.5 | 1.1 | 0.2 | 2.1 | .501 | .872 | .000 | 1.118 | 26.4 |
Carr is definitely the better player, but I was surprised to see how close these two are currently when you look per 36. Stip just only plays about 26 minutes per game. |
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