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Post by eric on Sept 14, 2022 15:46:32 GMT -5
logan doesnt think lebron is a problem fwiw, just the stale character creation process but if we must declare lebron a problem then i think the problem is actually resignings. i would rather have no resignings at all and/or shorter max contracts. no resignings is a proposal that interests me, although i think experimenting with a middle ground of a GM can only accept 1? resigning a year is a sensible first step anything that involves making entering fa bids more tedious extremely disinterests me |
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killiam bing
New Orleans Jazz
Posts: 777
Likes: 232
Joined: March 2022
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Post by killiam bing on Sept 14, 2022 15:49:10 GMT -5
anything that involves making entering fa bids more tedious extremely disinterests me
this is one place where i have no sympathy for eric, the dude used to brag in shout about sending mins to patrick ewing
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Post by Odin on Sept 14, 2022 15:59:28 GMT -5
logan doesnt think lebron is a problem fwiw, just the stale character creation process but if we must declare lebron a problem then i think the problem is actually resignings. i would rather have no resignings at all and/or shorter max contracts. no resignings is a proposal that interests me, although i think experimenting with a middle ground of a GM can only accept 1? resigning a year is a sensible first step anything that involves making entering fa bids more tedious extremely disinterests me i wholeheartedly support changes to the resigning system |
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Post by TinyTimPig on Sept 14, 2022 16:01:54 GMT -5
should players be made to try and produce their actual stats, or should we change them based on how well some subset of some of us regards them? how much should we change them? This point makes me wonder why you decided to start editing almost 100% of rookie profiles over the past 15-20 sim seasons? Players receiving edits by you: 3001 (1/15 received edits): Byron Scott 3002 (0/17): None 3005 (0/16): None 3007 (0/16): None (this year was the advent of college stats) 3015 (2/16): John Collins, Zach Collins 3020 (5/12): Mychal Thompson, Phil Ford, Micheal Ray Richardson, Purvis Short, Reggie Theus 3025 (8/10): Otis Thorpe, Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Sam Bowie, Alvin Robertson, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Jerome Kersey (we were without a DM this year and allowing any GM to submit profiles, so I understand the need to edit and level things out) 3030 (10/10): Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, R.J. Barrett, Darius Garland, Matisse Thybulle, Coby White, Jaxson Hayes, Rui Hachimura, Cam Reddish, Tyler Herro 3032 (10/10): Bill Walton, Doug Collins, Jamaal Wilkes, George Gervin, David Thompson, Darryl Dawkins, George McGinnis, Bobby Jones, Swen Nater, Maurice Lucas I get this isn't exactly the topic at hand, but it seems related. |
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Post by Odin on Sept 14, 2022 16:26:38 GMT -5
give all players 40 pot then roll a d100 for each to see how many upgrade points they get
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Post by Herby New Year! on Sept 14, 2022 16:29:46 GMT -5
7.0 - no resignings, back to weighted lotto.
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Post by Trofie on Sept 14, 2022 16:35:24 GMT -5
Lotto only makes sense moving forward. Gives everyone a shot at lebron. You might have some people tank but then you'll have shit classes like 84 (jordan) and everyone will be competing.
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Post by Fason on Sept 14, 2022 16:56:49 GMT -5
For 7.0 let’s go back to the future by having draft classes in chronological order. Would allow players to match their values during their eras. No threes until the 79 class though (or 61 for ABA).
Would finally give Allen Iverson a fair chance.
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Post by eric on Sept 14, 2022 17:06:47 GMT -5
should players be made to try and produce their actual stats, or should we change them based on how well some subset of some of us regards them? how much should we change them? This point makes me wonder why you decided to start editing almost 100% of rookie profiles over the past 15-20 sim seasons? bk |
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Post by eric on Sept 14, 2022 17:07:22 GMT -5
For 7.0 let’s go back to the future by having draft classes in chronological order. Would allow players to match their values during their eras. No threes until the 79 class though (or 61 for ABA). Would finally give Allen Iverson a fair chance. iverson was in the same draft class as ray allen  |
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Post by Druce on Sept 14, 2022 17:31:44 GMT -5
Players shouldn’t receive potential based on their irl career, rather their promise coming out of college. It blows my mind that that isn’t how things already are.
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Post by Druce on Sept 14, 2022 17:33:51 GMT -5
it's just complete coincidence that lebron in 5.0 and 6.0 had similar success that isn't in the same stratosphere as any other player. what i offered seems like a very simple way to test that. pick a number - how many titles do the bird mavs have to win for you to believe that lebron isn't the problem? 100 sim sample of the last 8 seasons with the champ data for both Lebron, bird, and then a league average sf would be interesting |
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Post by rw on Sept 14, 2022 17:41:57 GMT -5
Michael Jordan has the highest player efficiency rating of all time , the highest plus minus, led the league in win shares 9 times...are there any other accolades that you would like me to talk about or no? I dont know how "some growth expected" results in an all time great but stick to your 3 stats that prove YOUR point Eric. The only thing any one is asking is to admit that there were errors and some adjustments should have been made. a 75 which, in your words, means some growth expected, IRL turned out to be one of the best players in history. Players like LeBron and MJ and Kobe should be at 85-95ish pot, not 100, and if one is then they all should have been or with small degrees of variance to equate to overall performance IRL. t his brings us back to the fundamental question - should players be made to try and produce their actual stats, or should we change them based on how well some subset of some of us regards them? how much should we change them? whose regard matters? you don't get what you want when i make the numbers just be the numbers, but if you think the outcome of a bunch of people shouting at each other on every player in every class will do you better you are sorely mistakenI don't really care how much you change them, but it's mundane and clearly problematic to try to replicate the NBA players exact career with the only RNG being TC. Personally I always like having a draftmaster with the strengths and weaknesses for profiles then the commish makes a prospect based on the player. Ie Odin volunteering for that. As it stands we have bums like Frederick Weis going 3rd overall because lotto players didn't live up to expectations. It's bizarre. Having a profile is a disadvantage. Had Jonathan Bender had a profile he would have been awful because he was awful in the NBA but because he didn't have a profile he got his grades based on something else (his prospect status?) and went 6th overall. Why does Jonathan Bender have grades matching how he was at the draft but not Baron Davis or Steve Francis don't? |
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Post by Fason on Sept 14, 2022 18:25:24 GMT -5
Michael Jordan has the highest player efficiency rating of all time , the highest plus minus, led the league in win shares 9 times...are there any other accolades that you would like me to talk about or no? I dont know how "some growth expected" results in an all time great but stick to your 3 stats that prove YOUR point Eric. The only thing any one is asking is to admit that there were errors and some adjustments should have been made. a 75 which, in your words, means some growth expected, IRL turned out to be one of the best players in history. Players like LeBron and MJ and Kobe should be at 85-95ish pot, not 100, and if one is then they all should have been or with small degrees of variance to equate to overall performance IRL. sure let's talk about PER: 26 - rookie michael jordan 31 - peak michael jordan 19 - rookie lebron james 31 - peak lebron james we can also talk about win shares placement: #2 - rookie michael jordan #1 - peak michael jordan #90(!) - rookie lebron james #1 - peak lebron james plus minus doesn't go back that far so i assume you're talking about box plus minus: 7 - rookie michael jordan 13 - peak michael jordan 2 - rookie lebron james 13 - peak lebron james by the stats i picked, by the stats you picked, by any stats anyone could pick, lebron james had substantial growth, jordan had some but not a ton. that's why lebron has 100 pot, that's why jordan has 75 pot . what you can say is that sim jordan didn't start good enough for "some" growth to make him an all time great - that's true! but as you've already shown all his box score stats are in line with his irl ones except for scoring volume, which since it is so heavily determined by DC i can't control in the first place this brings us back to the fundamental question - should players be made to try and produce their actual stats, or should we change them based on how well some subset of some of us regards them? how much should we change them? whose regard matters? you don't get what you want when i make the numbers just be the numbers, but if you think the outcome of a bunch of people shouting at each other on every player in every class will do you better you are sorely mistaken Total BS to punish Jordan for valuing a college education and being 22 his rookie year. |
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Post by Trofie on Sept 14, 2022 18:28:53 GMT -5
The tough thing is you're able to recreate these young lotto guys with an actual potential build so they will look more accurate when they get to our league. I like that.
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Post by delap on Sept 14, 2022 19:16:26 GMT -5
7.0 - no resignings, back to weighted lotto. wheel in odd years, weighted lotto in even, except leap years where we do rookie FA |
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Post by delap on Sept 16, 2022 8:57:54 GMT -5
also, I haven't read all of this.
I would posit that there is some possibility that the issue isn't just LeBron... but that he concurrently has the best defensive player (by a mile) that we've had in 6.0
I don't think LBJ is necessarily over-powered in sim v. IRL... my gut instinct is that he is over-powered in sim compared to the other top 10-15 players of all-time (IRL) so it seems like the gulf is much bigger.
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Post by Fason on Sept 16, 2022 9:45:05 GMT -5
Is Lebron even the best player on the Mavs?!
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