Rookie Ladder - 3031 (283 views)

[delap]

PreSeason

1.1 looks like a stud... but what about the rest? Doesn't look great! Ho Grant is in a class of his own at #2... and then a STEEP drop-off. It's hard to fill a ladder at this point with these schmucks. Reggie Miller, Kevin Johnson, and Scotty Pippen could all appear down the road, but this PreSeason was not pretty for them.

1. David Robinson - Washington Capitols

Efficient, 1st in rebounding, 2nd in shot blocks, TOs aren't great... but not as bad as some other 1.1s of the past (Kareem and Zion come to mind).

2. Horace Grant - Indiana Pacers

2nd in rebounding, doesn't turn it over at all... solid all-around player. Seems like he could have few ways to go with upgrades and all of them are intriguing.

3. Armen Gilliam - Charlotte Hornets

Not a bad looking prospect, if he can get his 'boards up a bit. He scores enough, efficiently enough (for a rookie), and his TOs are low. His defense is questionable... but this class really struggled in the PreSeason so he's the best.

4. Olden Polynice - San Antonio Spurs

Could end up being a pretty good big with his high POT and seemingly solid footing so far. Gotta get the FT% up, but the rest looks like a good framework and with a few TC hits he could be very good.

5. Terry Coner - Los Angeles Lakers

Who? Listen buddy, I don't know him either... but he led the class in P/TSA in PreSeason and doesn't look terrible! His TOs are lowish and he could be a player... or not? Pete will surely figure it out.

6. Greg Anderson - Philadelphia 76ers

High-scoring big on a compuGM... but he's something? His rebounding is bad but everything else is OK I suppose.

7a. John Fox - Cleveland Cavaliers

7b. Chris Welp - New York Knicks

7c. Brad Lohaus - Toronto Raptors

I guess? 3 fairly OK bigs who will probably be decent players in the near future. Fox can score, Welp leads the class in shot blocking, and Lohaus is a well-balanced big who does a little of everything. Fox and Welp need to really hit the boards to be quality players in the future, while Lohaus needs some blocking love and/or inside scoring punch.

10. Eric White - Atlanta Hawks

He's a great rebounding wing, looks like he could be a good defender, and is 2nd in P/TSA. Let's see what King does to upgrade him before we get too excited.

Honorable Mentions:

Points:

Kevin Johnson - Toronto Raptors

Tommy Amaker - Cleveland Cavaliers

Terrance Bailey - New York Knicks

Wings:

Kevin Gamble - Dallas Mavericks

Vincent Askew - Seattle SuperSonics

Scotty Pippen - Portland Trail Blazers

Sarunas Marciulionis - Los Angeles Lakers

Bigs:

Clarence Martin - Pittsburgh Pipers

Sven Meyer - Philadelphia 76ers

[delap]

Day 40
The class as a whole is looking much more spry than they did in the PreSeason, and that's good for all of us. However, there isn't much suspense here: The Admiral is legit and is head and shoulders above the rest of the fleet. The next tier is 3-deep before a drop-off... and then the rest of the ladder is quality, but I can't see a scenario where they jump into the Top 4 without some really weird stuff occurring. Pippen and KJ remain HMs because of fatal flaws... that could both improve over time. I still have faith that each of them will end up a good player and we'll see if there are any in-season upgrades for either of them. Without further ado, the Ladder:

1. David Robinson - Washington Capitols (previous: 1)
1st in P/TSA, 2nd in blocks, 3rd in rebounding... all-around great scorer, defender, and won't kill the team with his slightly above-average TOs. He's a legit MVP contender in years to come with any normal growth.



2. Armen Gilliam - Charlotte Hornets (previous: 3)
3rd in P/TSA, strong rebounder, not entirely awful on defense... and as a bonus he doesn't turn it over! Should still grow well, too.



3. Reggie Miller - Indiana Pacers (previous: NR)
After a low-sample, but very poor, PreSeason, Miller has exploded in d Annapolis. Leads all rookies in scoring/36, is stealing the ball well enough... and like Gilliam above him, no TOs to speak of. Future growth is the only thing that keeps him below Gilliam now, as he's received all of his upgrades in a rare +30 in a rookie season from the Indiana GM.



4. Horace Grant - Indiana Pacers (previous: 2)
He's efficient and leads the class in rebounding, like his teammate Reggie, he doesn't turn it over. His only deficiency, shot blocking, may prevent him from perennial MVP consideration... but you could absolutely see him having flash years of 28/14 statlines that put him into the conversation.



5. Tellis Frank - Washington Capitols (previous: NR)
The Vice Admiral (trademark pending) playing alongside the more ballyhooed Robinson, Frank is putting up an incredibly well-balanced statline and is quietly killing it. 2nd in rebounding, 1st in shot blocking, efficient enough, and very low-TOs... the Ladder loves them some Frank this year. He may not grow a lot more, but he has +15 left for yawn to use.



6a. Vincent Askew - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: HM)
6b. Bruce Dalrymple - Dallas Mavericks (previous: NR)
Two hot-shooting, high volume SGs, Dalrymple and Askew both look like the archetype of SGs we've seen in the past... with the added bonus that Askew has high POT. As of Sim 4 they are both fully upgraded... so I expect them to look great the rest of the way. I know I said I don't see anyone outside of the Top 4 shooting up the ranks... but Askew might actually be the one candidate for that role. Keep an eye on him.




8. Tommy Amaker - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: HM)
He's not getting a ton of burn, but he could grow some, has all of his upgrades remaining, and is a solid 4th in P/TSA so far. He's solid enough on defense and in controlling the tempo, Amaker seems like the highest-floor PG in the class.



9a. Clarence Martin - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: HM)
9b. Jerome Batiste - San Antonio Spurs (previous: NR)
Martin first: 2nd in the class in P/TSA, doesn't turn it over... but that rebounding. WOOF. He still has high POT, so it should grow, but man it's awful. Batiste is a more well-rounded big, like a worse version of #5 Tellis Frank. He's sitting on +30 as well, so there could be something there.




Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Kevin Johnson - Toronto Raptors
Muggsy Bogues - Vancouver Grizzlies

Wings:
Scotty Pippen - Portland Trail Blazers
Sarunas Marciulionis - Los Angeles Lakers
Jamie Waller - Carolina Cougars

Bigs:
John Fox - Cleveland Cavaliers
Brian Rowsom - Chicago Stags
Joe Wolf - New Orleans Jazz
Olden Polynice - San Antonio Spurs

[delap]

Final Standings
Congrats Yawn of the Dead ... TinyTimPig please transfer 1k to the winner from my bank.

I actually really like the Top 7 here and there are a couple of the HM guys with pretty high potential that could be fun (Johnson, Polynice) with the right TC breaks.


1. David Robinson - Washington Capitols (previous: 1)
A no-brainer, really, no matter what the software says. 1st in rebounding, 3rd in P/TSA, 3rd in blocks. High in POT, the highest ranking seaman in the nation's capital, Robinson could really improve in 2 areas to jump to elite elite status: scoring volume (surprisingly low) and better handling (maybe it gets slightly better with time?). Still, a darn good player.



2. Reggie Miller - Indiana Pacers (previous: 3)
Despite his low POT/used uppies... Reggie still earns the #2 spot by showing impeccable scoring, low TOs, and a high hope for stealing growth. We've seen the power of SGs grow, even without much POT, so Miller should be in line for a very fruitful 7-9 years.



3a. Horace Grant - Indiana Pacers (previous: 4)
3b. Armen Gilliam - Charlotte Hornets (previous: 2)
I think I'd rather have HoGrant, but both are looking solid. Grant is the 2nd best rebounder in the class, is efficient enough, and absolutely doesn't turn it over. Gilliam is more efficient (2nd in the class in P/TSA), and is not a bad sight on the glass either. Solid players here.




5a. Vincent Askew - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: 6a)
5b. Bruce Dalrymple - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 6b)
Strong arguments could be made for these two to be higher... though the LeBron effect could, in fact, be an argument for Dalrymple to be pushed down. Askew is a POT king, Dalrymple is not... but both have expended their upgrades. Askew is efficient, scores at volume (1st in the class), and doesn't have any other weaknesses we can see. Dalrymple is #1 in P/TSA (playing off of King James makes it easy?), and doesn't really have weaknesses either. Again, a solid pairing. After these two there is a drop in future talent.




7. Scotty Pippen - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: HM)
Slow and steady progress over the entire season gets Pip up on the ladder. He got all of his upgrades halfway through the season, and really came on after that. High POT player... but I'm not sure he'll ever score enough to be elite, but he should be a long-time starter for sure.



8a. Tellis Frank - Washington Capitols (previous: 5)
8b. John Fox - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: HM)
8c. Clarence Martin - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 9a)
A trio of PFs who all deserve chances to be starters in the future... but are probably all relegated to being a 3rd big for the majority of their careers. Frank got the rest of his upgrades in the playoffs, so we'll have to wait for next year to see a more finished product. He's a low-POT Horace Grant... but a little worse. That said, he has the chops to be a rotation guy for the next few seasons. Fox and Martin are both more designed to be scoring PFs... which is good, because they don't rebound well at all and aren't great defenders either. Both are pretty close to maxed out, but Martin at least should have some POT-laden growth in the next few seasons. Fox is the better player next year, but Martin is the better bet to be relevant in 5 years.





Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Muggsy Bogues - Vancouver Grizzlies
Tommy Amaker - Cleveland Cavaliers
Kevin Johnson - Toronto Raptors

Wings:
Sarunas Marciulonis - Los Angeles Lakers
Derrick Dowell - Pittsburgh Pipers

Bigs:
Joe Wolf - Utah Jazz
Olden Polynice - San Antonio Spurs

[20s]

90k

[Sapular]

90K

[TinyTimPig]

100,000

[mazunga]

Gilliam literally led rookies in Win Shares

[20s]

What makes Miller better than Dalrymple? Bruce can also be mentored the next 2 seasons while Reggie cannot.

[killiam bing]

this is a bad ladder im sorry delap

89k

[delap]

Aug 25, 2022 8:19:25 GMT -5 20s said:

What makes Miller better than Dalrymple? Bruce can also be mentored the next 2 seasons while Reggie cannot.

I have a strong belief in the LeBron impact on his teammates output.

[Yawn of the Dead]

100k

[mazunga]

69k