Post by eric on May 19, 2022 21:25:53 GMT -5
i got to thinking the other day about players that hold the high water marks for various franchises. here's the rules i used:
1. mvp
2. finals mvp
3. all-nba and all-star
4. all-nba or all-star
in case of ties the better all-nba team won
in case of ties still not broken, highest win shares
a franchise did not establish a high water mark until it reached the playoffs
after which the furthest round reached in terms of distance from the title was the high water mark
.
the first player to hold two franchise high water marks simultaneously was Wilt Chamberlain, who had a
1967-1982 reign for the Philadelphia 76ers, taking over from Dolph Schayes and being replaced by Moses Malone, and a
1972-1979 reign for the Los Angeles Lakers, taking over from George Mikan and being replaced by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
8 years as a double high water would be the record until 2008, and
both players who replaced him would enjoy their own era of double high watering:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar went first and third
i said what i said, his
1970-2020 reign established a high water mark for the Milwaukee Bucks and was replaced by Giannis Antetokounmpo, and his
1980-1981 and 1985-1986 reigns for the Los Angeles Lakers flanked and preceded a reign by Magic Johnson, as well as
Moses Malone combining a
1981-1985 reign for the Houston Rockets, taking over from Rudy Tomjanovich and being replaced by Hakeem Olajuwon, with a
1983-present reign for the Philadelphia 76ers, ergo his
1983-1985 double high water era came after and before Kareem's
.
22 years of no double high waters were followed by
18 years of at least one, followed by
13 years of none, until
Shaquille O'Neal added to his
1994-2008 reign that established a high water mark for the Orlando Magic (replaced by Dwight Howard) a
2000-2008 reign for the Los Angeles Lakers (replaced in the same year by Kobe Bryant)
but before that he had a one year reign in
2005 for the Miami Heat, taking over from Tim Hardaway before being replaced by Dwyane Wade
the first triple high water, his
9 years as a double high water would be the record until 2018, and you'd never guess that it was broken by
Chauncey Billups
yes sir, Chauncey Billups had already started a
2004-present reign for the Detroit Pistons by taking over from Isiah Thomas when he began a
2009-2019 reign for the Denver Nuggets, taking over from Alex English before being replaced by alleged MVP Nikola Jokic
2009 saw three reigns change,
two of which were both of Shaq's and
one of which was Chauncey's second
every reign change in the entire NBA was double high water relevant
but how did Chauncey get the nod when wikipedia states quite clearly that in 2009 Carmelo Anthony "led the Nuggets"?
both players were awarded All-NBA Third Team
it was each of their third overall All-NBA
and each had been so awarded in 2006, 2007, and 2009
although Chauncey was a Second Teamer in 2006
Carmelo was listed at forward and finished behind (with Win Shares ranks)
1. LeBron James
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Paul Pierce
5. Tim Duncan
the #2 forward by Win Shares? Pau Gasol, who was also awarded Third Team
Carmelo finished 37th...
...among forwards
Chauncey was listed at guard and finished behind
2. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
1. Chris Paul
3. Brandon Roy
Chauncey finished 6th among guards,
but fellow Third Teamer Tony Parker finished 10th,
so that's the one with whom #5 Brandon Roy has a bone to pick
(besides whatever hack made sim Brandon Roy)
none of that matters
because the high water mark was not determined by tiebreaking Win Shares
it was determined by Chauncey being an All-Star
Carmelo was an All-Star the two seasons prior and the eight seasons after
but he missed 15 of 53 games in the first half, and
finished 5th in voting behind starters Tim Duncan and Amar'e Soutdemire, as well as
Metta World Peace in his only year as a Rocket
and Bruce Bowen in his only year as a 37 year old,
his only year coming off the bench for San Antonio, and
his only year immediately preceding his retirement
obviously it's pretty embarrassing for Carmelo to finish behind that Bruce Bowen, but
amazingly so did Spurs teammate (and then-starter) Tony Parker
that's life
who can explain it
.
in another suspicious coincidence, the first time in NBA history with three double high waterers occurred when
LeBron James led the Heat back to the promised land of the championship and
Chris Paul led the Clippers back to the somewhat less promised land of the conference semifinals
in the same year of 2012
as in 2009, they were the only reign changes of the year
LeBron added a
2012-present reign for the Miami Heat taking over from Dwyane Wade to a
2007-present reign for the Cleveland Cavaliers taking over from Brad Daugherty, and
Chris added a
2012-2019 reign for the Los Angeles Clippers taking over from Elton Brand to a
2008-2017 reign for the New Orleans Various taking over from Jamal Mashburn
.
there is one more double high waterstrist so far in NBA history
he would gain his position in 2019, two years after Chris lost his
he would become the third treble high water in 2020
taking over from Chris for the Los Angeles Clippers
Kawhi Leonard has
2014-present for the San Antonio Spurs, taking over from Tim Duncan,
2019-present for the Toronto Raptors, taking over from Kyle Lowry, and
2020-present for the Los Angeles Clippers
the second triple, making them the first double triple high water, is obviously
LeBron James again, with his
2020-present for the Los Angeles Lakers
once again both triple reigns started in the same year
once again with LeBron winning a title and
the Clippers winning a round
.
.
final score
ongoing: LeBron (10), Kawhi (3)
.
.
the longest total reigns across all franchises are
72 years, Bob Davies, all with the Kings and all of the Kings and all of the NBA years
All-NBA First Teamer Robert Edris "The Harrisburg Houdini" Davies is not being made up by me right now
or is he
he didn't make the All-Star Game but neither did anyone else since it wasn't invented yet
and as the only All-NBAer on the Rochester Royals he gets credit for their
51-17 co-second best record in the regular season and
0-3 record in the playoffs
then he was still the only All-NBAer when Rochester won the title the next year
and from Rochester to
Cincinnati to
Kansas City-Omaha to
Kansas City-period to
Sacramento
they haven't even made the Finals since
so that's that
the rest of the top five:
66 years, Bob Pettit, all with the Hawks
55 years, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 51 with the Bucks and 4 with the Lakers
52 years, Willis Reed, all with the Knicks
45 years, Bill Walton, all with the Trail
(wait for it)
Blazers
LeBron through last season sits at 27 (15 Cavs + 10 Heat + 2 Lakers)
Kawhi at 13 (8 Spurs + 3 Raptors + 2 Clippers)
if the HEAT do not win the title this year, it will take LeBron 14 more seasons of none of those teams winning titles without him to catch Davies
the only active reigners on a different team are
Dwight Howard (13 Magic, on Lakers)
Kevin Durant (5 Warriors, on Nets)
Anthony Davis (4 Pelicans, on Lakers)
so our chances at another triple double era don't look... they don't look great
.
.
this is the end of the post, thanks for reading :D
1. mvp
2. finals mvp
3. all-nba and all-star
4. all-nba or all-star
in case of ties the better all-nba team won
in case of ties still not broken, highest win shares
a franchise did not establish a high water mark until it reached the playoffs
after which the furthest round reached in terms of distance from the title was the high water mark
.
the first player to hold two franchise high water marks simultaneously was Wilt Chamberlain, who had a
1967-1982 reign for the Philadelphia 76ers, taking over from Dolph Schayes and being replaced by Moses Malone, and a
1972-1979 reign for the Los Angeles Lakers, taking over from George Mikan and being replaced by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
8 years as a double high water would be the record until 2008, and
both players who replaced him would enjoy their own era of double high watering:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar went first and third
i said what i said, his
1970-2020 reign established a high water mark for the Milwaukee Bucks and was replaced by Giannis Antetokounmpo, and his
1980-1981 and 1985-1986 reigns for the Los Angeles Lakers flanked and preceded a reign by Magic Johnson, as well as
Moses Malone combining a
1981-1985 reign for the Houston Rockets, taking over from Rudy Tomjanovich and being replaced by Hakeem Olajuwon, with a
1983-present reign for the Philadelphia 76ers, ergo his
1983-1985 double high water era came after and before Kareem's
.
22 years of no double high waters were followed by
18 years of at least one, followed by
13 years of none, until
Shaquille O'Neal added to his
1994-2008 reign that established a high water mark for the Orlando Magic (replaced by Dwight Howard) a
2000-2008 reign for the Los Angeles Lakers (replaced in the same year by Kobe Bryant)
but before that he had a one year reign in
2005 for the Miami Heat, taking over from Tim Hardaway before being replaced by Dwyane Wade
the first triple high water, his
9 years as a double high water would be the record until 2018, and you'd never guess that it was broken by
Chauncey Billups
yes sir, Chauncey Billups had already started a
2004-present reign for the Detroit Pistons by taking over from Isiah Thomas when he began a
2009-2019 reign for the Denver Nuggets, taking over from Alex English before being replaced by alleged MVP Nikola Jokic
2009 saw three reigns change,
two of which were both of Shaq's and
one of which was Chauncey's second
every reign change in the entire NBA was double high water relevant
but how did Chauncey get the nod when wikipedia states quite clearly that in 2009 Carmelo Anthony "led the Nuggets"?
both players were awarded All-NBA Third Team
it was each of their third overall All-NBA
and each had been so awarded in 2006, 2007, and 2009
although Chauncey was a Second Teamer in 2006
Carmelo was listed at forward and finished behind (with Win Shares ranks)
1. LeBron James
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Paul Pierce
5. Tim Duncan
the #2 forward by Win Shares? Pau Gasol, who was also awarded Third Team
Carmelo finished 37th...
...among forwards
Chauncey was listed at guard and finished behind
2. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
1. Chris Paul
3. Brandon Roy
Chauncey finished 6th among guards,
but fellow Third Teamer Tony Parker finished 10th,
so that's the one with whom #5 Brandon Roy has a bone to pick
(besides whatever hack made sim Brandon Roy)
none of that matters
because the high water mark was not determined by tiebreaking Win Shares
it was determined by Chauncey being an All-Star
Carmelo was an All-Star the two seasons prior and the eight seasons after
but he missed 15 of 53 games in the first half, and
finished 5th in voting behind starters Tim Duncan and Amar'e Soutdemire, as well as
Metta World Peace in his only year as a Rocket
and Bruce Bowen in his only year as a 37 year old,
his only year coming off the bench for San Antonio, and
his only year immediately preceding his retirement
obviously it's pretty embarrassing for Carmelo to finish behind that Bruce Bowen, but
amazingly so did Spurs teammate (and then-starter) Tony Parker
that's life
who can explain it
.
in another suspicious coincidence, the first time in NBA history with three double high waterers occurred when
LeBron James led the Heat back to the promised land of the championship and
Chris Paul led the Clippers back to the somewhat less promised land of the conference semifinals
in the same year of 2012
as in 2009, they were the only reign changes of the year
LeBron added a
2012-present reign for the Miami Heat taking over from Dwyane Wade to a
2007-present reign for the Cleveland Cavaliers taking over from Brad Daugherty, and
Chris added a
2012-2019 reign for the Los Angeles Clippers taking over from Elton Brand to a
2008-2017 reign for the New Orleans Various taking over from Jamal Mashburn
.
there is one more double high waterstrist so far in NBA history
he would gain his position in 2019, two years after Chris lost his
he would become the third treble high water in 2020
taking over from Chris for the Los Angeles Clippers
Kawhi Leonard has
2014-present for the San Antonio Spurs, taking over from Tim Duncan,
2019-present for the Toronto Raptors, taking over from Kyle Lowry, and
2020-present for the Los Angeles Clippers
the second triple, making them the first double triple high water, is obviously
LeBron James again, with his
2020-present for the Los Angeles Lakers
once again both triple reigns started in the same year
once again with LeBron winning a title and
the Clippers winning a round
.
.
final score
11 Chauncey
09 Shaq
08 Wilt
06 Chris
04 Kareem
03 Mosesongoing: LeBron (10), Kawhi (3)
.
.
the longest total reigns across all franchises are
72 years, Bob Davies, all with the Kings and all of the Kings and all of the NBA years
All-NBA First Teamer Robert Edris "The Harrisburg Houdini" Davies is not being made up by me right now
or is he
he didn't make the All-Star Game but neither did anyone else since it wasn't invented yet
and as the only All-NBAer on the Rochester Royals he gets credit for their
51-17 co-second best record in the regular season and
0-3 record in the playoffs
then he was still the only All-NBAer when Rochester won the title the next year
and from Rochester to
Cincinnati to
Kansas City-Omaha to
Kansas City-period to
Sacramento
they haven't even made the Finals since
so that's that
the rest of the top five:
66 years, Bob Pettit, all with the Hawks
55 years, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 51 with the Bucks and 4 with the Lakers
52 years, Willis Reed, all with the Knicks
45 years, Bill Walton, all with the Trail
(wait for it)
Blazers
LeBron through last season sits at 27 (15 Cavs + 10 Heat + 2 Lakers)
Kawhi at 13 (8 Spurs + 3 Raptors + 2 Clippers)
if the HEAT do not win the title this year, it will take LeBron 14 more seasons of none of those teams winning titles without him to catch Davies
the only active reigners on a different team are
Dwight Howard (13 Magic, on Lakers)
Kevin Durant (5 Warriors, on Nets)
Anthony Davis (4 Pelicans, on Lakers)
so our chances at another triple double era don't look... they don't look great
.
.
this is the end of the post, thanks for reading :D