Rookie Ladder - 3024 (261 views)

[delap]

PreSeason Standings

Did we all draft poorly? Did we miss something obvious? The biggest trend I see this PreSeason is that a good number of undrafted/CompuTeam players are actually looking pretty nice. We'll see if it holds when the real thing starts and the studs actually get some PT, but it's interesting for now. The rest of the class is... not great. It's just kinda there. I really have no clue who the #1 will be post-uppies and stuff. I am fairly certain that the composition of the Top 10 will drastically change once we get to Day 80 though. I also overloaded the HM lists... because lots of those dudes are kinda the same and I figure it's better to have a big tent now and winnow as we go.

1. Dennis Rodman - Dallas Mavericks

The Baby Worm is rebounding as advertised, where he enters the league as a Top 3ish rebounder. The added bonus here is that he's mildly efficient as a scorer, despite shooting 63% from the FT line. He's not a perfect player, but has one elite elite skill and honestly isn't terribly weak in other areas. Color me surprised.

2. Len Bias - Atlanta Hawks

No as efficient or volume heavy as I would like to see, BUT! He's an absolute stud on the glass, with over 10/p36 from the SF position and he's SG eligible. This is a bet that he'll get upgraded correctly (don't get cute with it, King) and that he'll end up around league average in efficiency.

3a. Brad Daugherty - Cleveland Cavaliers

3b. Bill Breeding - Cleveland Cavaliers

Daugherty is a great scorer, great rebounder, poor defender and likes to turn it over. However, given his relative strengths, I expect that his defense/TOs can be massaged a little with upgrades and his high potential means that in the long run, he will likely end up at least OK at defense naturally. Breeding doesn't have the luxury of high POT, but the output is basically the same at this point. A lot of pressure on this Cav young bigs to play up to the standards of their wing duo, though, so

 5. Forrest McKenzie - Carolina Cougars

A strong D/R glue wing with low TOs, McKenzie's POT is probably terrible, but he could be a very very serviceable player with the right upgrade package for the duration of his rookie deal.

6. Brad Sellers - Portland Trail Blazers

Well-rounded big who gets a lot of things right, nothing elite, but has solid POT and should naturally get boosts to already decent rebounding and blocking should make majic very happy.

7. Mark Price - Anaheim Amigos

Not sure who he compares to, because I don't recall many players that look like him. A no-shoot, no-rebound (maybe the worst rebounder I've seen, but I'm not really gonna punish a PG much for that), little defense type... but he's efficient and I'm somewhat optimistic that his upgrades will make him an interesting player.

8. John Williams - Vancouver Grizzlies

An absolute TO machine, but also a volume scorer, this high usage big is young and has a lot of natural growth coming to him (assuming he didn't get the dreaded POT drop TC), so his weak rebounding should correct itself over time. The biggest question for druce right now is how to solve the TO issue.

9. Bruce Douglas - Syracuse Nationals

The lone CompuRepresentative on the list, Douglas is 3rd in P/TSA, has a high steal rate and a low TO rate, and honestly looks very good. I'm willing to bet the sample affected this mightily, though, so it's wait and see on the best player in upstate New York.

10. Ron Harper - Seattle SuperSonics

A defensive maven who doesn't do much else... not sure that a 2nd player like that is needed in Seattle at the 2-guard, but here we are. His efficiency is very good though, so if Tim can coax him to shoot a bit more then there might be something there.

Honorable Mentions:

Points:

Grant Gondrezick - Seattle SuperSonics

Andre Turner - Syracuse Nationals

Wings:

Maurice Martin - Utah Jazz

Mark Alarie - Los Angeles Lakers

Ron Rowan - Los Angeles Lakers

Walter Berry - Syracuse Nationals

Harold Pressley - Texas Chaparrals

Milt Wagner - Seattle SuperSonics

Joe Ward - San Antonio Spurs

Drazen Petrovic - Washington Bullets

Nate McMillan - Toronto Raptors

Bigs:

Panagiotis Fasoulas - Houston Rockets

Kenny Gattison - Vancouver Grizzlies

Roy Tarpley - Philadelphia 76ers

Chris Washburn - Portland Trail Blazers

William Bedford - Chicago Bulls

John Salley - Carolina Cougars

Kevin Duckworth - Charlotte Hornets

Greg Dreiling - Washington Bullets

[delap]

Day 50 Update
Well, it looks like we've reached the point we did in 5.0 where the talent of the league is so high that it's really hard for rookies to get enough PT to really show their worth. I think we've tipped the equilibrium point and really need 2 GMs to fill in for the void created by the Odin/TroyBarnes departure. Very few rookies are getting substantial minutes... though it could just be this class? They aren't stellar. Maybe that's the issue... we'll keep an eye on it over here at LadderWatch, though. Back then I only had 8 spots on the ladder... and this group makes me wish I could do that again as there are only 8 guys I really see as worthy at this point.

1. Harold Pressley - Texas Chaparrals (previous: HM)
Some hot shooting (96% FT) has led Harold to be the #1 in P/TSA... he's also not a negative on defense or rebounding and doesn't turn it over. He's maxed out on upgrades, but that doesn't mean he can't get a little better on his own. Keep an eye on this one.



2. Dennis Rodman - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 1)
Man oh man does he rebound well. He leads the entire LEAGUE in boards per game and surprisingly has been a decent scorer (slightly lower than league average efficiency.) If his FT% ever ticks up through TC luck he could be a real force on both ends. His FG% is great, but teams will Hack-a-Worm him until he gets better from the stripe. Defensively his counting stats are solid, but not fantastic... but with the rebounding as high as it is, no complaints there.



3. Len Bias - Atlanta Hawks (previous: 2)
Bias still has a TO issue, but it isn't unsolvable through age-related progression or fixer-uppers (fixie-uppies?). He hasn't gotten a lick of help from his GM and their training staff in Atlanta yet, so there is still some upside here that could vault him up. The same issues exist... his volume/efficiency need to improve, but the rebounding is very good.



4a. Michael Graham - San Antonio Spurs (previous: NR)
4b. Brad Sellers - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: 6)
Two moderately efficient, strong rebounding, decent shot-blocking bigs. Graham looks to be a borderline-elite rebounder, whereas Sellers is more protective of the rock. Otherwise, their outputs look very similar so far. Sellers has more natural ability to grow remaining, but Graham hasn't been upgraded at all, so I expect a big bump for him if/when he receives those points. If he gets them by Sim 7 then maybe he could even force his way into the Top 3.




6. Bill Breeding - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 3b)
He's not sexy at all, despite his last name implying that he likes to get down... but he doesn't have the big flaw that the next 2 bigs have. He is maxed out on growth and won't have a lot of natural growth, but he's a solid player and should hold value throughout his rookie deal before settling into a rotation-filler type player.



7a. Brad Daugherty - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 3a)
7b. Kevin Duckworth - Charlotte Hornets (previous: HM)
I'm really concerned that neither of these guys can rebound at all. However, both still have +30 and Daugherty came in with sky-high potential... so I'm willing to be open to them both looking better by Year 2/3, especially Daugherty. In addition to the lack of boards, neither is a stud on defense and may need help in multiple areas to become starters in the league.




9. Roy Tarpley - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: HM)
Tarp looks like a worthy flyer on a CompuTeam for a struggling GM to take. His efficiency isn't all that, but he's scoring in bunches and that's worth something? He doesn't rebound well, otherwise I assume he would've been snapped up already, but someone should really take a look at him.



10. Scott Meents - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: NR)
Another Philly Special, Meents struggles on the boards, but everything else looks solid about this big guy... and he might even have some natural growth potential as a 'B' prospect initially. Again, someone should take a quick look at him.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Andre Turner - Syracuse Nationals

Wings:
Maurice Martin - Utah Jazz
Forrest McKenzie - Carolina Cougars
Mark Alarie - Los Angeles Lakers
Drazen Petrovic - Washington Bullets

Bigs:
William Bedford - Chicago Bulls

[delap]

Day 80 Update
Almost the same 10... some reshuffling. Meents/Tarpley really should be on a roster somewhere. Bias and the non-rebounding bigs remain disappointing... and the Top 2 are a cut above everyone else by a big margin. I think the difference between the two of them is very slim, though, so there is a real race for the cash (big 1k prize!) in the last 40 days. Michael Graham is the only one to disappear, as his FG% dropped like a rock, pulling his P/TSA from league average to sub 1.000.

1. Harold Pressley - Texas Chaparrals (previous: 1)
Still 1st in P/TSA, still not turning it over, still no major (detectable) weaknesses. He isn't elite elite at anything (aside from his FT%), but he's really well-rounded. Chaps got himself a player.



2. Dennis Rodman - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 2)
Still a machine on the glass, ready-made to the best rebounder in the league (until Barkley arrives next year?) and surprisingly not terrible anywhere except the charity stripe.



3. Brad Sellers - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: 4b)
By himself in Tier 2, Sellers allegedly has a great build and POT to spare. He's a solid looking prospect who could move to solid long-term starter if he improves from the line and/or ups his rebounding.



4. Len Bias - Atlanta Hawks (previous: 3)
Still disappointing based on his college hype, Bias just isn't efficient enough to make up for his TO issue. One of those things needs to get better quickly for him to be considered a positive starter. I don't love putting him here, but I can't realistically put him any lower either.



5. Bill Breeding - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 6)
Sellers without the upside... which means he's fine for now, but is he a long-term answer? Probably not.



6a. Brad Daugherty - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 7a)
6b. Kevin Duckworth - Charlotte Hornets (previous: 7b)
Same as last time... these guys are just garbage on the boards and don't get blocks. They are good on offense, but not good enough to ignore those other glaring issues.




8. Maurice Martin - Utah Jazz (previous: HM)
The sample is still super small, smaller than I like, but Martin has showed strong upside in his scant time. Could he be a Pressley-like player? Maybe... we don't really know. But his p36 numbers aren't terribly different right now, so maybe Fason will do us all a solid here over at Ladder, Inc. and play him more down the stretch.



9a. Roy Tarpley - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 9)
9b. Scott Meents - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 10)
Scoring machine big and a solid big. Free to a good home.




Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Andre Turner - Syracuse Nationals
Pearl Washington - Pittsburgh Pipers

Wings:
Myron Jackson - Dallas Mavericks
Ron Rowan - Los Angeles Lakers
Mark Alarie - Los Angeles Lakers

Bigs:
Greg Dreiling - Washington Bullets

[Dirt]

Rodman should be 1 because he's put my team top 5 in rebounding.
Barkley won't crack top 5 in rebounding eveb if he's maxed like Rodman.

Thanks for your hard work

[TinyTimPig]

Apr 13, 2022 19:39:38 GMT -5 delap said:

2. Dennis Rodman - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 2)
Still a machine on the glass, ready-made to the best rebounder in the league

Crazy how the ready-made best rebounder in the league averages .6 fewer rebounds per 36 than someone who isn't the ready-made best rebounder in the league.

[killiam bing]

I've seen Pressleys scout. He is pretty good. Needs a little bit of a scoring bump but then he's really really good.

[delap]

Final Ladder Standings
This boils down to me having more faith in the long-term for the Worm than Sir Harold. Congrats to Dirt for another Rookie Ladder win. TinyTimPig , please give him 1k from my bank.

The rest of the class is still just mostly steaming garbage. There are few guys I like (Sellers, notably), but I don't really see many serviceable rotation players in this group. I have been wrong many times, but this class feels especially poor.

1. Dennis Rodman - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 2)
1st in the league (whole league) in p36 rebounding and reasonable outputs everywhere else. His P/TSA is about league average... but considering he shot 55% from the line... that's pretty impressive.



2. Harold Pressley - Texas Chaparrals (previous: 1)
No knock to Pressley, he just doesn't have that elite elite skill that Rodman has exhibited... and is also likely done growing. That said, he was tops in the class in P/TSA by a decent margin and as I've said before, there are no red flags here. If he gets some of that nice natural stealing growth by virtue of being a SG he'll end up being a solid starter for sure. If he somehow gets his volume up he could even contend for an 8-figure salary and have low-end All-Star consideration.



3. Brad Sellers - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: 3)
The most well-rounded of the big class this season, Sellers doesn't have an elite skill, but does some of everything you want in a big and has a ton of natural growth remaining. That alone should goose his rebounding and blocking stats to where he is a very very solid player.



4. Milt Wagner - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: NR)
One of the biggest late season jumps we've seen... Wagner was biding his time and then since the last update has received a ton of minutes and shown his value in the Emerald City. 2nd in the class in P/TSA and scoring at a very nice clip for a rookie, Wagner doesn't seem to have many holes in his game (like those 2 ahead of him). That said, he's maxed on uppies and I'm not sure how much natural growth he'll get in the areas that need it (rebounding/FT%). The drop-off after Milt is sizeable.



5. Bill Breeding - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 5)
Sellers without the potential for future growth, Breeding would be a strong 3rd big candidate for most teams right now... and for competing teams if his shot blocking were stronger. Even with low potential there is a chance that he could get better in that area, so he remains above the other bigs beneath him.



6a. Kevin Duckworth - Charlotte Hornets (previous: 6b)
6b. Brad Daugherty - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 6a)
6c. Kenny Gattison - Vancouver Grizzlies (previous: NR)
Man these guys suck on the glass. They also don't block shots. In most years they would be HM type of players, but this class is so thin that they remain on the ladder and I have to say nice things about them. Duck, for what it's -worth, doesn't turn it over much. Daugherty likely has a ton of potential left... so that's nice for him. He needs it. Gattison is another late-season bloomer who finally got some PT. Gattison can score and block a bit... but like the 2 paired with him, he really can't rebound at all. There is hope for him though, with shown 'B' POT.





9. Drazen Petrovic - Washington Bullets (previous: NR)
Still has good shown potential, +10 remaining (if my math is correct), and shown 'B' grade on defense... so there is hope here. He should grow naturally with his jumper, I'm sure his 3pt is pretty high now, and that should give him the chance to end up pretty strong. He'll need some TC luck, but there is a chance he could be vastly improved in the coming years and make me look foolish. A chance.



10. Len Bias - Atlanta Hawks (previous: 4)
Based on his output alone, he's an HM type of player... but he still has +30 left and could realistic get molded into a player that is worthwhile. His B+ rebounding grade should translate into more boards, in my estimation, so this could have been an anomaly for him there. Get the TOs down and he can play. It will take a patient and intentional GM though, to make him a rotation player.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Andre Turner - Syracuse Nationals

Wings:
Ron Rowan - Los Angeles Lakers
Maurice Martin - Utah Jazz

Bigs:
Mike Williams - Texas Chaparrals
Warren Martin - Dallas Mavericks
Roy Tarpley - Philadelphia 76ers
Scott Meents - Philadelphia 76ers
Greg Dreiling - Washington Bullets

[Fason]

85k

[Druce]

i'm hopeful for gattison and john williams still. didn't upgrade williams hoping for some more tc growth. 100k

[Sapular]

No upgrades yet for Daugherty…I hope he’ll be fine in the long run.

95k

[TinyTimPig]

90,000

[Majic]

100k