Rookie Ladder - 3021 (455 views)

[delap]

PreSeason Rankings

Day late and a TimPig unit short, but here we go. As I write this sentence I haven't looked at a single rookie stat other than my own. Let's learn together as I rank this year's group!

(now that I've looked... this class... yuck.)

(note on the Honorable Mentions... the bar is super low. It's below the floor. I'll raise the bar for regular season updates so the HM list will surely shrink)

1. Richard Jefferson - Dallas Mavericks

I guess? He scores well, rebounds OK, has a nice steal rate, and is low TO compared to the class. It also looks like he has a pretty easy fix (jumpshot) to really elevate his game going forward. After a few years of runaway winners, I can't imagine there will be one this year, but that's not because of immense talent of others... simply everyone looks kinda so-so.

2. Tyson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers

The best rebounder in a class of terrible rebounders (only he and Troy Murphy look to be above-average), good defensive metrics, not terrible TOS, and a solid free-throw stroke already. His shot volume isn't what Pete wants, I'm sure, but I imagine he can get there with upgrades.

3. Omar Cook - Charlotte Bobcats

Here's where the list becomes a big jumble... and I just kinda like the way Cook looks so far? He scores in volume and efficiency, plays a little defense, isn't a TO machine. I'm in on Omar.

4. Eddy Curry - Carolina Cougars

Strong scoring big (and 2nd in the class in P/TSA)... but not a rebounder or defensive stalwart at all... but he could grow into it, especially since he may be close to maxed out on offensive skills.

5. Troy Murphy - Indiana Pacers

A well-rounded big found in the 2nd Round, Murphy needs a boost to his jumpshot and he looks pretty solid. He rebounds very well and has defensive promise.

6. Trenton Hassell - Pittsburgh Pipers

Potential to be a strong scoring wing, but not sure he can be much else. Doesn't turn it over much, though, so that's nice.

7. Pau Gasol - San Antonio Spurs

An interesting fellow, but man he can't rebound at all or play much defense, which could be a huge problem as a big. That potential and unique build is still intriguing.

8. Steven Hunter - New York Knicks

Defense only big... but probably the 2nd most promising defender in the class after Chandler. If he got better at rebounding or scoring he could be a big mover upward.

9a. Gilbert Arenas - Carolina Cougars

9b. Dean Oliver - San Antonio Spurs

3rd and 1st in the class, respectively, in P/TSA, these scoring points are turnover machines... which is a real concern. They are both pitiful rebounders, but that isn't the worst thing at the 1. Both have an OK steal rate.

Honorable Mentions:

Points:

Earl Watson - Anaheim Amigos

Tony Parker - Chicago Bulls

Kenny Satterfield - Toronto Raptors

Wings:

Mike Wilks - Philadelphia 76ers

Maurice Evans - Toronto Raptors

Bobby Simmons - Cleveland Cavaliers

Joseph Forte - Vancouver Grizzlies

Bigs:

Jason Collins - Washington Bullets

Kwame Brown - Indiana Pacers

Samuel Dalembert - Milwaukee Bucks

Loren Woods - Washington Bullets

[Chaps]

No Jason Richardson? Chaps snubbed

[delap]

Day 40 Update
Some clarity and decent play, but still difficult to fill out a full ladder. The Top 8 (the top tier in my opinion) could really be in any order and I'd be fine with that. I'm definitely not married to this order or the top spot. The HM section is pretty dire, with only a player or two I actually like.

1. Jason Richardson - Texas Chaparrals (previous: NR)
1st in P/TSA and that's elite! But he's average or way worse than average at basically everything else!



2. Zach Randolph - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: NR)
3rd in P/TSA, OK (but disappointingly not great) on the boards... and low TOs. He's just trash on defense though.



3. Eddy Curry - Carolina Cougars (previous: 4)
A worse version of Z-Bo! He's really incredibly similar in output to Randolph... just a bit worse.



4. Shane Battier - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: NR)
Another newbie who debuts after a crappy PreSeason, Battier is 2nd in P/TSA (possibly carried by a small sample from the FT line?). If his shooting is real, he's really solid. Above-average on the boards and a strong defender with SG eligibility, I like him.



5. Joseph Forte - Vancouver Grizzlies (previous: HM)
Decent scoring, good ball control, and a great steal rate... lots to like here. Some natural growth on the boards and to his jumper (which is more likely) could really get him going in the future.



6. Tyson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 2)
He remains the best rebounder in a low-rebounding class, and an elite defender... but man he's garbage on offense. His FT% isn't even bad, so maybe he has a chance to get better... but it's grim right now.



7. Richard Jefferson - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 1)
Strong scorer, whose raw numbers are goosed by playing on a weak team. Turnovers are troublingly high. If he can get those under 2.5/36 I'd feel much better about putting him back up.



8. Loren Woods - Washington Bullets (previous: HM)
Bringing up the rear of the top tier, Woods is solid on offense, OK on defense... and not a great rebounder. I worry that he's just not elite at anything, but he likely has a ton of potential to grow.



9. Andres Nocioni - Chicago Bulls (previous: NR)
The Argentine Assassin (probably his nickname, right?) is efficient, doesn't turn it over, and seems to be a strong defender, too.



10. Omar Cook - Charlotte Bobcats (previous: 3)
Turnovers remain a bugaboo, but Cook can really score and may excel in an outside offense in the near future. Great 2nd Rounder by Odin.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
None

Wings:
Jeryl Sasser - Orlando Magic
Norman Richardson - Houston Rockets
Rodney White - Orlando Magic

Bigs:
Antonis Fotsis - Milwaukee Bucks
Vladimir Radmanovic - Miami Heat
Brendan Haywood - Pittsburgh Pipers
Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje - Charlotte Bobcats

[20s]

Gil not even HM?

[delap]

Feb 13, 2022 18:06:04 GMT -5 20s said:

Gil not even HM?

His p36 are

[Dirt]

Don't agree. Still has 3 scores with 20+ on his team.

[Handsome Pete]

Lakers players will he much better once they get their uppies

[eric]

Lakers, players, lend me your ears. will he mulch better once they get their uppies? si, bart, si

[delap]

Day 80 Update
I still don't see an elite elite player in the group... and any of the Top 8 could be that dude, but there still isn't much separation between them. If hard-pressed I would actually say the Top 5 is slight above the next 3, then there is a drop to 9-10 and the HMs. Overall this class doesn't rebound well, doesn't have shot blockers, and not a lot of even average shooters. It's a strange class. The upside here is upside... lots of teenagers and high potential players that could really vault this class up, but as a whole they will be relying on TC luck to really shine.

1. Zach Randolph - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 2)
3rd in P/TSA, he gets the nod over Eddy Curry due to stronger rebounding and fewer TOs. Neither he nor Curry are strong defenders and probably won't ever be, really limiting their ceiling as winning players, but they can both be Top 5 offensive bigs for sure.



2. Eddy Curry - Carolina Cougars (previous: 3)
1st in P/TSA, but just not great at much else. His rebounding isn't so bad that he's unplayable, but 20s has got to be hoping for substantial rebounding growth to make him a long-term starter.



3. Richard Jefferson - Dallas Mavericks (previous: 7)
The player here who I think is closest to his final form, Jefferson can score in buckets and isn't terrible on the boards nor is he super weak on D... but the TOs are an issue in team-building. You can stomach one big TO guy, but not more than that, so he'll need to have certain players around him to succeed. Jumpshot needs his remaining uppies or it will probably be forever broken.



4. Tyson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 6)
The best defender, the best rebounder. He has a pretty high TO-rate given his relatively low usage, so that should be addressed. He is very unlikely ever to be a positive on offense, but if he can get to be a net neutral on that end he's a darn good player. Those defensive and rebounding chops should both grow in TC.



5. Jason Richardson - Texas Chaparrals (previous: 1)
Looks decidedly worse than he did 40 days ago, but still a strong and intriguing prospect. His scoring profile looks strong, so growth around the edges can do him some good.



6. Omar Cook - Charlotte Bobcats (previous: 10)
Volume scoring PGs are a hot commodity, and he's already there as a rookie. His TOs can be a big issue, but some PGs grow out of that. Odin got himself a good one.



7. Joseph Forte - Vancouver Grizzlies (previous: 5)
Really big on his defensive upside, low TO game, and scoring profile. He sorta reminds me of Joe Dumars, so the upside is definitely there.



8. Shane Battier - Cleveland Cavaliers (previous: 4)
Not sure he'll ever be able to reach the scoring levels of the wings ahead of him here, but he should still be a solid starting wing with his contributions on the boards and defensively.



9. Loren Woods - Washington Bullets (previous: 8)
I really liked him pre-draft and thought he would be a stronger player than he has shown, especially defensively and on the boards, but that doesn't mean he's been bad, just worse than expected. I am not sure he has mega upside because he doesn't look to have the chance to be elite on either end, just solid each way... but he's the last player here who really intrigues me, so that's something.



10. Antonis Fotsis - Milwaukee Bucks (previous: HM)
Fotsis is 2nd in P/TSA, so he gets the last spot... but we've seen this before, strong offensive big with no discernible other talent. Ceiling here is probably as a 3rd big in a rotation, but needs a much stronger rebounder/defender next to him or his team will get torched inside.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Joe Crispin - Orlando Magic
Dean Oliver - San Antonio Spurs

Wings:
Andres Nocioni - Chicago Bulls
Norman Richardson - Houston Rockets
Trenton Hassell - Pittsburgh Pipers

Bigs:
Brendan Haywood - Pittsburgh Pipers
Vladimir Radmanovic - Miami Heat
Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje - Charlotte Bobcats

[TinyTimPig]

I feel like #6 received the best review

[20s]

Still no Gil even HM?  I was told his per 36 numbers were gross as the reason he didn't appear.

Per 36 Numbers:

Full Name Pos P R A S B T FG% FT% 3P% P/TSA PER
Gilbert Arenas PG 24.7 5.7 10.1 1.2 0.0 3.9 .524 .750 .500 1.185 20.4
Dean Oliver PG 17.5 2.9 9.9 1.3 0.2 2.3 .448 .789 .404 1.050 15.3
Omar Cook PG 22.9 4.0 9.0 1.1 0.2 3.3 .492 .920 .484 1.164 18.2

Cook has been raved about, Dean Oliver is HM.  Gil is

Cook has received all his upgrades and started with 60 potential.
Oliver has received all his upgrades and started with 61 potential.
Arenas still has +20 in upgrades to use and started with 90 potential which is still high 80s.

[delap]

Sample is just too small. He's played 122 total minutes.

[20s]

Wouldn't expect anything less from the guy who didn't put ALL STAR Darius Miles on his rookie ladder AT ALL. And the guy who didn't have the guy doing this in his sophomore season:

Full Name Pos G M P R A S B T FG% FT% 3P% P/TSA PER
Jack Givens SF 50 29.6 17.1 6.8 2.0 0.8 0.4 1.1 .508 .902 .451 1.204 17.0


anywhere to be found on last year's rookie ladder.

The Cougars hate is basically a tradition at this point.

[Trofie]

Randolph #1 potential top 5 offensive big


Fostis #10 3rd big potential 

Insert clown gif

[delap]

Final Standings
Another class that really lacks depth, but the top end looks pretty good. The only HM player I really even considered for a ladder spot was Battier... big gap between him and the rest of the HM dross.

Time is a flat circle, and we're right back where we started from, with RJ at the top. Congrats to kc for that... TinyTimPig, please give him 1k from my bank.

1. Richard Jefferson - Houston Rockets (previous: 3)
Assuming he gets that last +7 to his jumpshot, he has potential to be the leading scorer in the league. He's a volume guy with above-average efficiency and can play either wing spot capably. His TOs have ticked down over the year and he's under 3 per 36 now, so that's a good sign. He's a good, not great rebounder and brings a decent steal rate.



2a. Eddy Curry - Carolina Cougars (previous: 2)
2b. Zach Randolph - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 1)
Nearly identical outputs for their rookie season, but Curry has the potential advantage going forward. They are #1 and #2 in P/TSA, rebound well enough, and don't turn it over. I worry about either of them becoming elite elite bigs because of their total lack of defense, but they should both be offensive monsters.




4. Tyson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 4)
A late +30 to his INSIDE upped that offensive production, but his TO rate is still pretty high given his relatively low usage. If he gets that sorted out he could be a stud moving forward. Best rebounder in the class and the best defender (along with Boumtje^2) by a considerable margin over the next group of bigs.



5a. Omar Cook - Charlotte Bobcats (previous: 6)
5b. Dean Oliver - San Antonio Spurs (previous: HM)
A pair of scoring points that can credibly slot into starting roles immediately, Cook and Oliver are similar in output, save Cook's strong P/TSA and Oliver's better TO rate. Oliver might be a slightly stronger defender as well. I lean toward Cook, though, as natural growth should help his TO issue more than Oliver will improve in scoring. Both are maxed out on upgrades, so they are reliant on the TC gods to boost them a bit.




7. Jason Richardson - Texas Chaparrals (previous: 5)
I wish he showed some more rebounding or stronger defensive stats, but there really aren't any problems, per se, with Richardson. He just may not be elite at anything and instead just very good. That's not a bad thing. He probably has decent remaining potential and can play either wing spot.



8. Joseph Forte - Vancouver Grizzlies (previous: 7)
Still has +10 remaining and should have incredible natural potential, Forte has a shot at making me look foolish and leaping up the class rankings. He's a solid scorer (but not enough volume as of yet) and OK rebounder for his position/size... but he has a great steal-rate for a rookie and doesn't turn it over.



9a. Antonis Fotsis - Milwaukee Bucks (previous: 10)
9b. Loren Woods - Washington Bullets (previous: 9)
Fotsis is efficient, but needs a boost in volume. The good news is that he has +15 remaining to either max out his inside (if it isn't already) or beef up his strength to get him to shoot more. He doesn't bring a whole lot else to the table, though, as he is a subpar rebounder, but at least he doesn't turn it over. Woods is maxed out on uppies, but has high natural potential. The good news here is that he is not broken in any single aspect of the game. With some TC luck to rebounding or (especially) shot blocking, he could become a very good starter. Like Forte, TC luck could make me look foolish having him so low.




Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Joe Crispin - Orlando Magic

Wings:
Shane Battier - Cleveland Cavaliers
Andres Nocioni - Chicago Bulls
Norman Richardson - Houston Rockets
Trenton Hassell - Pittsburgh Pipers

Bigs:
Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje - Charlotte Bobcats

[Deleted]

80k

[Dirt]

99k RJ rules

[Sapular]

100K

[Druce]

85k

[b. A. (good 2023)]

85k