GM firings (866 views)

[jhb]

Considering the active waiting list and the overall total activity of the league I think we should devise a mechanism to eliminate inactive GMs quicker than the current mechanism

Having GMs that take up slots and do the bare minimum when we have non-GMs active on the board is bad for the league.

Discuss what this would look like and how it would be enacted here.

[Majic]

Man, why didn't someone suggest this long ago??

Yes, I have been saying since 5.0 days we should institute some form of "mimimum requirements" to stay a GM. With the league now being full, and a waiting list, its important to come up with a standard to "fire" a GM and bring on someone more active.

Personally, with the ability of contraction I think I would always prefer 20-25 teams with GM's that are active over a full league with 5-10 GM's that arent around.

[Soup]

some sort of percentage vote for removal with maybe an eric veto so we can't vote out BK or something like that.

[Deleted]

Proposal:
Must set a DC each season
Must make all draft picks (or forfeit)
Must fill out their roster

Optional (we may like this or may not):
Must be online at least once every 4 days

All of these components could be waived if a GM posts an "absent" thread, saying they are going to kenya or something for a couple months and will be less active.

[20s]

Specifically, the Pelicans and Pipers haven’t signed on in weeks.

The Pipers have a young player who they pretty much cannot keep in free agency. It would be pretty smart of them to trade him and get something before he walks.

The Pelicans have 1.1 in the next draft. We really need to get an active GM to take them over for next season. It would be a shame for that pick to not be controlled by the new GM.

[bankz]

Feb 2, 2021 9:56:52 GMT -5 20s said:

Specifically, the Pelicans and Pipers haven’t signed on in weeks.

The Pipers have a young player who they pretty much cannot keep in free agency. It would be pretty smart of them to trade him and get something before he walks.

The Pelicans have 1.1 in the next draft. We really need to get an active GM to take them over for next season. It would be a shame for that pick to not be controlled by the new GM.

Don't be fooled by this attempt to better the league.  20s is in this only for those hidden gems! 

[bankz]

Guys this isn't fucking rocket science. Votes and thresholds... You can easily identify an active GM and one that isn't.

Ba, Boomstick need to go. That is clear. They have made zero efforts.

Fecta should go simply because he sucks and possibly because he seems not interested either in the league.

That's the list.

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 9:56:52 GMT -5 20s said:

Specifically, the Pelicans and Pipers haven’t signed on in weeks.

The Pipers have a young player who they pretty much cannot keep in free agency. It would be pretty smart of them to trade him and get something before he walks.

The Pelicans have 1.1 in the next draft. We really need to get an active GM to take them over for next season. It would be a shame for that pick to not be controlled by the new GM.

This 

[eric]

since we do not do post facto changes, current GMs will be grandfathered in to the current requirements

Feb 2, 2021 10:00:46 GMT -5 bankz said:

Fecta should go simply because he sucks and possibly because he seems not interested either in the league.

people who are advocating for a GM vote, do you think this helps or hurts your case?

[Trofie]

Feb 2, 2021 10:58:52 GMT -5 eric said:

since we do not do post facto changes, current GMs will be grandfathered in to the current requirements

Feb 2, 2021 10:00:46 GMT -5 bankz said:

Fecta should go simply because he sucks and possibly because he seems not interested either in the league.

people who are advocating for a GM vote, do you think this helps or hurts your case?

For all the good you've done the league you have a Gary Bettman mind on moving it forward. We absolutely should not have slacking gms when there are capable replacements

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 10:58:52 GMT -5 eric said:

since we do not do post facto changes, current GMs will be grandfathered in to the current requirements

Feb 2, 2021 10:00:46 GMT -5 bankz said:

Fecta should go simply because he sucks and possibly because he seems not interested either in the league.

people who are advocating for a GM vote, do you think this helps or hurts your case?

Respectfully speaking, I am not sure I would agree with the "grandfathering" of current GM's.

As 20's points out, we very clearly have a couple GM's that are not doing what we would classify as the bare minimum. I would rather we act quickly to ensure those teams/picks/assets don' waste away. 

By no means do I think we fire them without at least giving them notice or a chance to fix the issue. 

The concern we all have is wasting opportunities to get new GM's that will be active and participating. Current rules would dictate that those teams/GM's would stick for 2 years before any action was taken. I think we could institute a better structure that acts more quickly, benefitting the league as a whole. 

[jhb]

Feb 2, 2021 10:58:52 GMT -5 eric said:

since we do not do post facto changes, current GMs will be grandfathered in to the current requirements

Feb 2, 2021 10:00:46 GMT -5 bankz said:

Fecta should go simply because he sucks and possibly because he seems not interested either in the league.

people who are advocating for a GM vote, do you think this helps or hurts your case?

Not doing something about guys that are MIA when you have active non-GMs here is foolishness.

[20s]

If you aren’t even logging in during the league’s INAUGURAL SEASON, you are never going to come back and be active contributor. ba hasn’t even signed in since before Sim 1 was posted.

Boomslick was on the day Sim 1 was posted, but hasn’t been here to see Sim 2.

We have guys coming to the board, chatting in shout, actively contributing to the league and wanting a team. And we’re not going to let them have one why? So people who have never even logged in to see a sim can not log in again next year and waste the 1st overall draft pick?

[20s]

eric we have a full league and a waiting list with a couple guys chomping at the bit.

This is different than if we have robot teams and are considering having to contract another team. The old policy makes sense there and I understand erring on the side of caution when contracting a team.

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 11:14:03 GMT -5 20s said:

If you aren’t even logging in during the league’s INAUGURAL SEASON, you are never going to come back and be active contributor. ba hasn’t even signed in since before Sim 1 was posted.

Boomslick was on the day Sim 1 was posted, but hasn’t been here to see Sim 2.

We have guys coming to the board, chatting in shout, actively contributing to the league and wanting a team. And we’re not going to let them have one why? So people who have never even logged in to see a sim can not log in again next year and waste the 1st overall draft pick?

[bankz]

Eric could give one fuck about what we want as a league. It's pretty clear at this point. Let's see if he proves me wrong

[eric]

Feb 2, 2021 11:14:03 GMT -5 20s said:

If you aren’t even logging in during the league’s INAUGURAL SEASON, you are never going to come back and be active contributor. ba hasn’t even signed in since before Sim 1 was posted.

Boomslick was on the day Sim 1 was posted, but hasn’t been here to see Sim 2.

We have guys coming to the board, chatting in shout, actively contributing to the league and wanting a team. And we’re not going to let them have one why? So people who have never even logged in to see a sim can not log in again next year and waste the 1st overall draft pick?

they weren't required to log in during the season

you're taking someone running a 100m race and disqualifying them for not going over hurdles - of course they didn't go over hurdles, they were explicitly told they didn't have to

and this goes back to majic/trofie's point - everybody knows now that ba and boomslick aren't active and dachap is. since absolutely 0 people predicted this before it happened, why should we put any weight on what people predict next? whether it's you or jhb or anyone else saying sapular will be active or goboys won't, where's the track record? nobody knows whether a gm will or won't be active, the sooner we can all accept that the easier this discussion will be

[IanBoyd]

[bankz]

Feb 2, 2021 16:05:02 GMT -5 IanBoyd said:

Welcome to reality... 

[Druce]

Feb 2, 2021 15:56:37 GMT -5 eric said:

Feb 2, 2021 11:14:03 GMT -5 20s said:

If you aren’t even logging in during the league’s INAUGURAL SEASON, you are never going to come back and be active contributor. ba hasn’t even signed in since before Sim 1 was posted.

Boomslick was on the day Sim 1 was posted, but hasn’t been here to see Sim 2.

We have guys coming to the board, chatting in shout, actively contributing to the league and wanting a team. And we’re not going to let them have one why? So people who have never even logged in to see a sim can not log in again next year and waste the 1st overall draft pick?

they weren't required to log in during the season

you're taking someone running a 100m race and disqualifying them for not going over hurdles - of course they didn't go over hurdles, they were explicitly told they didn't have to

and this goes back to majic/trofie's point - everybody knows now that ba and boomslick aren't active and dachap is. since absolutely 0 people predicted this before it happened, why should we put any weight on what people predict next? whether it's you or jhb or anyone else saying sapular will be active or goboys won't, where's the track record? nobody knows whether a gm will or won't be active, the sooner we can all accept that the easier this discussion will be

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 15:56:37 GMT -5 eric said:

Feb 2, 2021 11:14:03 GMT -5 20s said:

If you aren’t even logging in during the league’s INAUGURAL SEASON, you are never going to come back and be active contributor. ba hasn’t even signed in since before Sim 1 was posted.

Boomslick was on the day Sim 1 was posted, but hasn’t been here to see Sim 2.

We have guys coming to the board, chatting in shout, actively contributing to the league and wanting a team. And we’re not going to let them have one why? So people who have never even logged in to see a sim can not log in again next year and waste the 1st overall draft pick?

they weren't required to log in during the season

you're taking someone running a 100m race and disqualifying them for not going over hurdles - of course they didn't go over hurdles, they were explicitly told they didn't have to

and this goes back to majic/trofie's point - everybody knows now that ba and boomslick aren't active and dachap is. since absolutely 0 people predicted this before it happened, why should we put any weight on what people predict next? whether it's you or jhb or anyone else saying sapular will be active or goboys won't, where's the track record? nobody knows whether a gm will or won't be active, the sooner we can all accept that the easier this discussion will be

Serious question to you eric.

What in your mind is the minimum requirement for a GM to not be fired? 

I think its pretty obvious the league feels there needs to be certain levels of activity. What do you think is the absolute minimum that ba, or boomslick, can do to not be fired?

[Majic]

to just briefly add to this point.

I dont think anyone in the league right now is honestly advocating that we fire any GM right now.

What we are arguing is that we should have an expected level of activity whenever we have a waitlist. Setting the standard for what a GM has to do and then informing all current GM's of those standards.

If any current GM's cannot fulfill that requirement then we move (vote??) to fire that GM.

You are right, we cannot predict the future but we can use past experiences to plan our future. To this point, Sapular has been more active, more involved and generally more willing to learn than any of the GM's we have discussed. Sim League history shows us that non active GM's who have never been active rarely become really active.

As was mentioned previously, this is only a concern when we have a full league. The full league may last weeks or it may last months, either way I would like to incentivize new GM's (or potential new GM's)
to be active.

[TinyTimPig]

Feb 2, 2021 16:37:51 GMT -5 Majic said:

I dont think anyone in the league right now is honestly advocating that we fire any GM right now.

I'm pretty indifferent overall but there is currently a poll entitled "Should BA and Boomslick be fired immediately"

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 16:43:02 GMT -5 TinyTimPig said:

Feb 2, 2021 16:37:51 GMT -5 Majic said:

I dont think anyone in the league right now is honestly advocating that we fire any GM right now.

I'm pretty indifferent overall but there is currently a poll entitled "Should BA and Boomslick be fired immediately"

I could be wrong but I believe JHB did that in jest. 

In any case, I would against firing them right now. 

What I am in favor of is determining if they will be active GM's as soon as possible so that we dont waste 2-3 seasons on a non-existent GM. This is a step to not letting that happy.

[Trofie]

Feb 2, 2021 15:56:37 GMT -5 eric said:

Feb 2, 2021 11:14:03 GMT -5 20s said:

If you aren’t even logging in during the league’s INAUGURAL SEASON, you are never going to come back and be active contributor. ba hasn’t even signed in since before Sim 1 was posted.

Boomslick was on the day Sim 1 was posted, but hasn’t been here to see Sim 2.

We have guys coming to the board, chatting in shout, actively contributing to the league and wanting a team. And we’re not going to let them have one why? So people who have never even logged in to see a sim can not log in again next year and waste the 1st overall draft pick?

they weren't required to log in during the season

you're taking someone running a 100m race and disqualifying them for not going over hurdles - of course they didn't go over hurdles, they were explicitly told they didn't have to

and this goes back to majic/trofie's point - everybody knows now that ba and boomslick aren't active and dachap is. since absolutely 0 people predicted this before it happened, why should we put any weight on what people predict next? whether it's you or jhb or anyone else saying sapular will be active or goboys won't, where's the track record? nobody knows whether a gm will or won't be active, the sooner we can all accept that the easier this discussion will be

Its not a prediction its an educated  guess based off the fact most of us have gm'd with gbg. Its the same reason I'm not  advocating for MJ even though I like him. 

[bankz]

Feb 2, 2021 16:44:52 GMT -5 Majic said:

Feb 2, 2021 16:43:02 GMT -5 TinyTimPig said:

I'm pretty indifferent overall but there is currently a poll entitled "Should BA and Boomslick be fired immediately"

I could be wrong but I believe JHB did that in jest. 

In any case, I would against firing them right now. 

What I am in favor of is determining if they will be active GM's as soon as possible so that we dont waste 2-3 seasons on a non-existent GM. This is a step to not letting that happy.

What is the argument for keeping them?  

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 16:47:25 GMT -5 bankz said:

Feb 2, 2021 16:44:52 GMT -5 Majic said:

I could be wrong but I believe JHB did that in jest. 

In any case, I would against firing them right now. 

What I am in favor of is determining if they will be active GM's as soon as possible so that we dont waste 2-3 seasons on a non-existent GM. This is a step to not letting that happy.

What is the argument for keeping them?  

Well I will answer this 2 ways:

1) Eric is correct, they completed everything they technically needed to have completed to this point.

2) I dont think its particularly fair to fire them without talking to them, or sharing some form of minimum requirement rules. 

[eric]

Feb 2, 2021 16:37:51 GMT -5 Majic said:

to just briefly add to this point.

I dont think anyone in the league right now is honestly advocating that we fire any GM right now.

What we are arguing is that we should have an expected level of activity whenever we have a waitlist. Setting the standard for what a GM has to do and then informing all current GM's of those standards.

If any current GM's cannot fulfill that requirement then we move (vote??) to fire that GM.

You are right, we cannot predict the future but we can use past experiences to plan our future. To this point, Sapular has been more active, more involved and generally more willing to learn than any of the GM's we have discussed. Sim League history shows us that non active GM's who have never been active rarely become really active.

As was mentioned previously, this is only a concern when we have a full league. The full league may last weeks or it may last months, either way I would like to incentivize new GM's (or potential new GM's)
to be active.

multiple people are unambiguously advocating that we fire GMs right now, though. if you personally aren't i do think that's much more productive, but i have to talk to those people too, and frankly there's just more of them than there are of you

with that said, if you want to advance a stricter system with the understanding that it's not going to be applied retroactively, go for it

[Majic]

Feb 2, 2021 16:55:59 GMT -5 eric said:

Feb 2, 2021 16:37:51 GMT -5 Majic said:

to just briefly add to this point.

I dont think anyone in the league right now is honestly advocating that we fire any GM right now.

What we are arguing is that we should have an expected level of activity whenever we have a waitlist. Setting the standard for what a GM has to do and then informing all current GM's of those standards.

If any current GM's cannot fulfill that requirement then we move (vote??) to fire that GM.

You are right, we cannot predict the future but we can use past experiences to plan our future. To this point, Sapular has been more active, more involved and generally more willing to learn than any of the GM's we have discussed. Sim League history shows us that non active GM's who have never been active rarely become really active.

As was mentioned previously, this is only a concern when we have a full league. The full league may last weeks or it may last months, either way I would like to incentivize new GM's (or potential new GM's)
to be active.

multiple people are unambiguously advocating that we fire GMs right now, though. if you personally aren't i do think that's much more productive, but i have to talk to those people too, and frankly there's just more of them than there are of you

with that said, if you want to advance a stricter system with the understanding that it's not going to be applied retroactively, go for it

I would not be arguing for immediate removal, but I do want to come up with a minimum requirement that we all agree to. 

My next question, we come up with the standards for an active GM, when can we start enforcing them? 

We provide the rule to the entire league ASAP and I personally think it would/should be applied starting next season. 

[eric]

Feb 2, 2021 16:58:56 GMT -5 Majic said:

Feb 2, 2021 16:55:59 GMT -5 eric said:

multiple people are unambiguously advocating that we fire GMs right now, though. if you personally aren't i do think that's much more productive, but i have to talk to those people too, and frankly there's just more of them than there are of you

with that said, if you want to advance a stricter system with the understanding that it's not going to be applied retroactively, go for it

I would not be arguing for immediate removal, but I do want to come up with a minimum requirement that we all agree to. 

My next question, we come up with the standards for an active GM, when can we start enforcing them? 

We provide the rule to the entire league ASAP and I personally think it would/should be applied starting next season. 

if we can nail it down before playoffs i think that would be a reasonable time frame with long draft this year, any later and that's too short a turnaround imo