On MVPs, FMVPs, and the Greatest Since LeBron James
Oct 5, 2021 17:25:44 GMT -5
delap, Chaps, and 1 more like this
Post by eric on Oct 5, 2021 17:25:44 GMT -5
An even fifty NBA players have won either the MVP or Finals MVP.
Of those, a cool thirty-three won one or the other, but not both.
Of the remaining seventeen, six players won at least two of each, and are no brainer inclusions in any top ten list, listed here in chronological order with the year of their career in which they won their second MVP and Finals MVP respectively...
Kareem-Abdul Jabbar: 3, 16
Larry Bird: 6, 7
Magic Johnson: 10, 3
Michael Jordan: 7, 8
Tim Duncan: 6, 6
LeBron James: 7, 10
Of the final eleven, there are two active players: Giannis Antetokounmpo with 2 and 1, and Kevin Durant with 1 and 2. Let's look at who those with similar trophy cases!
Giannis compares with...
Moses Malone with 3 and 1, and
Wilt Chamberlain with 4 and 1, but
Wilt probably would have gotten another one when his Sixers won the 1967 championship, so
it's really just Moses.
Durant compares with...
Willis Reed with 1 and 2, and
Hakeem Olajuwon with 1 and 2, and
Shaquille O'Neal with 1 and 3, and
Kobe Bryant with 1 and 2, and
that's it.
To get a frame of reference on the general regard these players are held in, I scientifically and painstakingly chose the first four returns for historical NBA player rankings, plus Bill Simmon's updated pyramid. As a check, I looked for players who appeared in the top twenty of all lists (there were thirteen) and the consensus top eight went Jordan, James, Abdul-Jabbar, Johnson, Bird, Chamberlain, Russell, Duncan. Since Russell almost certainly also would have had two Finals MVPs, the "2+ and 2+" metric looks to be working extremely well! Let's see how the almosts shook out:
So for the most part the 1/2+ types are much better regarded than the 2+/1 types... but what about Reed? Well, he doesn't make the top 30 50 20 of the first three lists, cracks the list at #35 in the fourth, and doesn't make the top 25 for ol' Bill (although at #30 on the original pyramid he'd probably be around #35 in the new one). I'm not saying he's a no brainer borderline top ten, but folks are out here putting players like Patrick Ewing, Ray Allen, Isiah Thomas ahead of him and folks that just plain doesn't make sense.
Putting Reed aside (since everyone else did already), it seems very likely Durant would be better regarded than Antetokounmpo should they both retire today, and the lists bear this out: of the three published in 2021, Durant ranks 13 14 and 17, Giannis ranks 26 not top twenty and not even in the top fifty(!).
.
But I wondered... which player is more likely to join the hallowed 2+/2+ types? Looking back at the years they all won their second Finals MVP, the values are all over the map, ranging from Johnson's incredible 3rd year to Abdul-Jabbar's incredible 16th year. Giannis is going into his 8th year so he's in good shape - he could tie Jordan this year or beat James next year... possibly by beating James!
Durant is going into year 15.
Not only would a regular season MVP for him be dramatically later than any 2+/2+er's second MVP, it would be later than any MVP won by those players, besting Jordan's sixth in year 14... which is also the record for most experienced MVP in NBA history.
.
.
Right now, Kevin Durant is the greatest since LeBron James, albeit narrowly, and looking forward it seems very likely Giannis Antetokounmpo will take that appellation.
Of those, a cool thirty-three won one or the other, but not both.
Of the remaining seventeen, six players won at least two of each, and are no brainer inclusions in any top ten list, listed here in chronological order with the year of their career in which they won their second MVP and Finals MVP respectively...
Kareem-Abdul Jabbar: 3, 16
Larry Bird: 6, 7
Magic Johnson: 10, 3
Michael Jordan: 7, 8
Tim Duncan: 6, 6
LeBron James: 7, 10
Of the final eleven, there are two active players: Giannis Antetokounmpo with 2 and 1, and Kevin Durant with 1 and 2. Let's look at who those with similar trophy cases!
Giannis compares with...
Moses Malone with 3 and 1, and
Wilt Chamberlain with 4 and 1, but
Wilt probably would have gotten another one when his Sixers won the 1967 championship, so
it's really just Moses.
Durant compares with...
Willis Reed with 1 and 2, and
Hakeem Olajuwon with 1 and 2, and
Shaquille O'Neal with 1 and 3, and
Kobe Bryant with 1 and 2, and
that's it.
To get a frame of reference on the general regard these players are held in, I scientifically and painstakingly chose the first four returns for historical NBA player rankings, plus Bill Simmon's updated pyramid. As a check, I looked for players who appeared in the top twenty of all lists (there were thirteen) and the consensus top eight went Jordan, James, Abdul-Jabbar, Johnson, Bird, Chamberlain, Russell, Duncan. Since Russell almost certainly also would have had two Finals MVPs, the "2+ and 2+" metric looks to be working extremely well! Let's see how the almosts shook out:
23, 23, 15, 14, 14 - avg 18 - Malone
12, 13, 11, 12, 12 - avg 12 - Olajuwon
06, 06, 08, 07, 13 - avg 08 - O'Neal
05, 14, 09, 08, 09 - avg 09 - BryantSo for the most part the 1/2+ types are much better regarded than the 2+/1 types... but what about Reed? Well, he doesn't make the top 30 50 20 of the first three lists, cracks the list at #35 in the fourth, and doesn't make the top 25 for ol' Bill (although at #30 on the original pyramid he'd probably be around #35 in the new one). I'm not saying he's a no brainer borderline top ten, but folks are out here putting players like Patrick Ewing, Ray Allen, Isiah Thomas ahead of him and folks that just plain doesn't make sense.
Putting Reed aside (since everyone else did already), it seems very likely Durant would be better regarded than Antetokounmpo should they both retire today, and the lists bear this out: of the three published in 2021, Durant ranks 13 14 and 17, Giannis ranks 26 not top twenty and not even in the top fifty(!).
.
But I wondered... which player is more likely to join the hallowed 2+/2+ types? Looking back at the years they all won their second Finals MVP, the values are all over the map, ranging from Johnson's incredible 3rd year to Abdul-Jabbar's incredible 16th year. Giannis is going into his 8th year so he's in good shape - he could tie Jordan this year or beat James next year... possibly by beating James!
Durant is going into year 15.
Not only would a regular season MVP for him be dramatically later than any 2+/2+er's second MVP, it would be later than any MVP won by those players, besting Jordan's sixth in year 14... which is also the record for most experienced MVP in NBA history.
.
.
Right now, Kevin Durant is the greatest since LeBron James, albeit narrowly, and looking forward it seems very likely Giannis Antetokounmpo will take that appellation.
