Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 21, 2021 11:08:10 GMT -5
Sim league GMs - it is an honor to return to this venerable forum with our initial publication in The Mainboard Simulated Basketball League 6.0. After weeks of brainstorming, with hundreds of outstanding ideas from our team at the Report, it was clear that the best way to kick off 6.0 was by giving a microphone to the champions of 5.0 one last time. Without further ado, we bring you a roundtable featuring the championest champions of 5.0: Ward, Skrouse, TimPig, JHB, and Delap.
You guys were the winningest GMs in 5.0. Can you give those of us that haven't played in an Eric-run league a few tips on how you approach team building in an Eric-run league?
- Read the draft profiles and take everything literally and how it relates to the attribute categories that we have in our league. If it says they don't pass the ball much you might think that's not a great attribute in real life but here it means low passing, low turnovers. That works conversely. If he's a top flight athlete and a dynamo dunker, while in real life that means a lot of easy, high efficiency baskets, here it just means higher jumping attribute so higher scoring volume with no positive impact to efficiency.
- Don't underestimate the value of later picks. There are a couple of different builds where you can consistently find some value later in the draft. Look for the non-profile guys who have valuable attributes as a strength and invest in them...with +40, mentors, camps, and a potential to be a hidden gem you can dredge the depths of the draft board to find some utility and round out your roster with valuable skills for cheap.
- Don't give up a ton of value for bucks, you can earn them in a variety of ways where you don't have to give up any roster value.
I don't think there is much of a difference to the approach in an eric run league vs any other league. I always try to maximize scoring and efficiency and limit turnovers and bad shots. I guess the only difference would be knowing the types of players eric built that didn't work out. What immediately comes to mind is the 3 and D wing, it's just a dangerous player build from eric to pursue imo because of some of the greats simply didn't work out in 5.0, like Ray Allen. But that could have been more a TC problem and not an eric problem, who knows.
I think the biggest difference in an eric-run league is that there is no 1 set way to build. We saw a variety of successful teams build primarily through the draft, FA, and/or trades. The knowledge of the Wheel lets you know when you will have the best chance to strike with multiple potential draft hits, so you can time your contract lengths and draft to win for certain 3-4 year windows. Trading (during the Wheel) was a key component as well. Given 29 GMs, there will always be someone willing to trade a valuable player for a high draft pick, so I expect to see the trade market hopping (as it already has been) for the duration.
As far as your actual team, you can win in many ways. We've seen outside and inside teams win. We've seen teams win with a stud PG (Irving Mavs, Robertson Bulls), teams with D/R bigs (Odin's late-era Bobcats with Capela/Mourning), and teams with star wings (LBJ Bulls, McGrady Magic). I think the biggest takeaway we saw from all of those teams is that you couldn't win with a big weak-link in your team... but that was with 14 GMs. With a full league I imagine more flawed teams will have a chance, as there aren't likely to be teams that finish Top 5 in O and D.
Don't be afraid to team build around bigs anymore. Eric has done a great job of making the distribution of positional efficiency much better. Also, take advantage of the scouting option and use it if you have a top 10 pick.
I’ve only been a GM for two “extended” tenures - 20s and Odin - apart from Eric. The best advice I can give when it comes to Eric compared to the other two is that he’s the most committed to following things as they’re written, both when it comes to player profiles and the rules. Gone are the days where you can be reasonably sure a guy out of Nebraska (20s) or a guy with a weird name (Odin) are going to be all-stars. Additionally, if you’re hoping that you might be able to get your trade posted at 1:01pm on deadline day approved when the deadline was at 1pm, good luck.
Given your perspective on Eric-run leagues, give me your top 3 drafts so far and your bottom 3 drafts. (editor's note: one of our former interns, who was told not to use us as a reference for future employment, drafted this question poorly. Some GMs answered this as top drafts from 5.0. Others answered as top 5 creation drafts. In Delap's case we asked for a revised response, but in the interests of time we did not ask for revised responses from all GMs. We have included all responses.)
2003 - LeBron, D-Wade, Darko, Bosh, and Korver ended up with varying levels of success, but all were key pieces on good teams. Josh Howard stuck around a long time and was the subject of controversy as well. Many thought he was an above average starter. Some thought he was awful.
2011 - Kyrie was the best point guard we saw in 5.0, Valanciunas was a HOF big man, Kawhi was the best defensive wing we’ve seen by a long shot, and there were plenty of guys who were starting caliber at some point (Tobias Harris, Enes Kanter, Jimmy Butler).
2020 - This probably shouldn’t count as Eric started beefing up rookies when we reached the end of 5.0 so that they could be relevant, but tons of guys from this class were very good. Killian Hayes, Cole Anthony, Patrick Williams, Isaac Okoro, Saddiq Bey, and a couple of others.
Two of my top 3 were pretty easy as I had the #1 pick in no-brainer drafts with Magic & KAT. For my third, I'd probably go with the draft where I had the 2nd & 9th picks - #2 was Pistol Pete who only played for me for 4 seasons but at #9 I was able to nab Big Bob Lanier who ended up with probably the best career of anyone in the class (Honorable Mention picking Cazzie Russell with the last pick of the 1st round in one of the early drafts).
Bottom 3:
- Passing on Jerry Lucas to take Nate Thurmond. Nate was a league average type big but Lucas turned into a volume monster.
- Khris Middleton with #5. Luckily, there wasn't anyone behind him that made me regret it too much but woof was Middleton not good.
- Rodney Carney in the 2nd round. Actually, ended up a great pick but I gave on him after 2 season & he ended up a stud D wing for JHB for about 10 seasons.
- I'm going to mix this up a little bit because I don't want to just give 3 and 3
- Top draft so far is dirt. He's put together a team with a clear vision and he was the most successful at going hard to acquire picks without selling himself out to not be able to also acquire depth to fill out his roster in the creation draft. He's put together a frontcourt with great defense between Hines, Grady, and Upshaw and there's not a real weakness on the boards between them. He can focus his offense on the outside and spread it among three great scorers in Gathers, Riva, and Kirkland. He's got some age to his team but if he's smart with his upgrades and saves money for some Germany trips, with the contract lengths he's got I wouldn't be shocked if he was a two-time winner to start TMBSL 6.
- If I have to choose a second favorite draft so far it may be the Grizzlies. He's acquired a lot of scoring and will likely push to have the most efficient offense right off the bat. My concern with his roster may be the lack of defense and how that fares in the playoffs when he runs into a team like the Clippers who can also score but play much better defensively.
- TBD draft so far is Odin. I know he's supposed to be doing a trade for some players but right now the assembly of talent he has seems incomplete and he's a little over-leveraged with the way he's traded for talent now. So once we sees how he fills out the depth and what those trades do we'll be able to make an assessment. But right now I tend to worry he went all out for a team that could compete but he won't be able to touch dirt. Another that I feel this way about is the Sixers. I think they did a good job accumulating assets but I don't know if any of the youth they invested in will pan out. Personally not a fan of software guys.
- Not a fan of what I'm seeing from the Bulls, they don't have any top 8 draft picks in the next two seasons and they haven't drafted a single player with an actual elite skill. Harler is high efficiency but low volume, Calipari passes a lot but turns it over, he's got absolutely no defense, and one of his picks is a software filler already with D potential. I don't get it. The Heat are another team where I'm worried about their ability to compete. No defense, their scorers tend to be better at volume than efficiency, and they have don't have a single non-PG player who isn't lower than a C rating in turnover stats. This team is going to be super inefficient on offense and they don't do anything on defense. Pipers are another draft that looks a mess. No elite skills, went way in on passing (someone should have told him).
- The following teams should be around the top of the league and be somewhat competitive and had solid drafts if not spectacular: Magic, Hawks, Mavericks, Cougars (I think they have some big upside with how good their defense should be and the scoring punch of Kickingstallionsims and Diebler), Nets, Pacers, Raptors.
- The Knicks will be interesting depending on how Ank fills out his roster. He has the ability to turn George and Dubljevic into a really good frontcourt with some upgrades to George's inside scoring but right now he still needs a lot of help in his starting lineup and not a lot of places left to find it.
Tough to say right now, I think the guys that traded back into the 1st and 2nd round multiple times are clearly the front runners based on the information we have at this juncture. odin's Bobcats look solid with Wayne Estes, Demetrius Mitchell and what I believe will be James Blackmon Jr. after a pending trade. delapthrows Raptors also look good with picks like Sergei Belov, Luke Recker and Walter Magnifico. Tough to separate some others but I like what I see with dirt's Clippers with Hank Gathers, Antonella Riva and my dark horse MVP candidate Pee Wee Kirkland. There are some others that were hard to leave out like druce's Grizzlies and TimPig's SuperSonics who have turned their creation draft capital into future assets.
Bottom 3 is really hard to say because a lot of guys have traded for future picks so I'm trying to leave those guys out. I would say Mike's Bulls leave a lot to be desired and haven't acquired any future assets. @boomslick's Pelicans also find themselves with what appears to be little talent and no future assets. And sadly ba's Pipers look to be in the a similar place with a lack of good players now and future assets outside of their own.
Original Response
Top 3 Drafts for the delap-led Mavericks in 5.0:
2045: The 2nd-to-last draft of 5.0. I had the 1 spot in the Wheel, but I also broke my team down in the years leading up to '45 to nab extra picks and move up in prior drafts. I ended up with George Gervin at 1.1, Bobby Jones at 1.5, and Gus Williams at 1.14. Through the machinations of the years prior and 2 contributing rookies, I managed to nab the title that year. Not bad.
2043: Landed Xavier McDaniel at 1.3 and jumped back into the 1st round to get Terry Porter, both of whom became rock-solid starters for the Mavs for the remainder of 5.0.
2036/39: Shortly after the introduction of our Minor League teams, I took a stronger approach than anyone else to fill that roster and scatter-shot at draft picks. For that very reason these drafts were fun. I landed 8 players in 2036 (Bargnani and Sene were hits, the rest... not so much) and 4 more in 2039, including the best 3rd Rd pick of 5.0, Mr. Dragan Tarlac.
Worst Drafts for the delap-led Mavericks in 5.0:
I'll just group together basically every draft from 2017 until we started wheel. In those many drafts, immediately following my obvious pick of Kyrie Irving... I only managed to find one starter (Peja) out of a dozen total picks in a condensed league. It was a shameful era.
Revised response
Top 3:
Ank picked the right man at #1. It was a no-brainer to me, which I know it was not for some other 5.0 GMs... but Dubljevic is young, still has potential, and will be a beast offensively. I'll cheat and pick 3 more... a tie for the 2nd spot is skrouse's pick of Wrenn at 3 and druce's pick of Cooke at 9. I'm really high on them and think they were clearly the best two SGs in the draft. Cooke falling to 9 was especially egregious, because I don't expect much from the 3 right above him. Finally, I'll pick one of my own to brag a bit: Sergei Belov is the best PG in the draft and PG still matters a ton in Sim League... and I got him at 18. Yes, I know he's old, but he should be in MVP-contention for 3 seasons and fell to 18. Not as bad as the fall of Firsto Picko in 5.0... but still bad.
Bottom 3:
[disclaimer: no ill will to those who made these picks] Editor's Note: but he does judge you all poorly.
As I mentioned on Pod Save 5.0, Mike's pick of John Calipari is incredibly strange. I had him as a 3rd/4th rounder and I wouldn't have taken him in front of the next 15 or so picks. It was the worst pick of the draft up until.... the Bulls next selection of Chase Harler. Harler looks fine until you see "F" potential for a 21 yr old. I can handle F for a super old dude... but F at 21 is the biggest possible danger sign and Mike just sped through it. The other spot to point to is Shawn Kemp Jr. Throughout 5.0 we saw many hyper-athletic bigs without other skills (even with a ton of potential!) that just never translated into great players: Aaron Gordon, Blake Griffin, Antonio McDyess, Tom Chambers, etc... they were all fine, but not great. You can't make that pick at 6 in a creation draft. Fecta should know that as much as anyone... because he drafted Blake Griffin in 5.0 and Blake was out of the league in 4 years (he probably deserved to live a little longer, but died on the FA vine)
There was a pretty clear top 5 GMs from 5.0 (putting aside the erics and anklys of 5.0 that left early) - how do you guys think you rank among yourselfs?
TimPig
Ward
JHB
Skrouse
Delap
I think there can only be an argument for two guys at #1, and as this is a results based business I have to go with TimPig - a ridiculous number of titles and they weren't luck, TimPig went out and traded for the LBJ pick and as soon as he retired and 5.0 began to wind down he found another great SF in Jamaal Wilkes who helped him secure yet another title. That makes @warddunn the clear #2, the only gm with a title in every decade of 5.0. A constant contender and even after he took a season off his team was still good enough to make the ECF on autopilot. I would put jhb at #3, he's a better judge of talent I am and he won more consistently than delap. Always a tough negotiator but never afraid to move on from a guy when he knows he can't win. I would put myself at #4 again based on results along, five titles vs two. But honestly I can chalk up the first three titles to one trade and a #1 overall pick that was due to a contraction, so that makes delapthrows #5 but all things considered we are even more even than it appears looking solely at rings.
1. Tim (# of titles speak for themselves)
2. Myself (2nd most titles, best winning percentage)
3. jhb (jumped in a few seasons late but once he did he had a top 5 team most every season)
4. skrouse (last few season run & what he did with rookie FA was very impressive)
5. delap (always a solid team with the chance to make a deep playoff run and occasionally pull of the whole thing)
I'm definitely 5th. I'm only on the list because of a high-floor constancy. My ceiling was never what it was among these other guys.
5. delap
4. skrouse - had some very high highs... but probably also the lowest lows (which still weren't bad) among this group.
3. jhb
2. ward
1. tim
Tim
Ward
Me
Skrouse
Everyone else
That was pretty much the four best teams after I came back to the league in 2019 until the end. In fact, from 2015 until the end of 5.0 those teams account for 31 of 36 titles.
Most 5.0 GMs have returned for 6.0, what 5.0 GM not included in this RT do you think will be the most competitive in 6.0?
Druce. He put together a lot of really good teams in 5.0 that could never quite get him over the hump. He drafts and approaches free agency well and his attitude when trading is one that doesn’t usually alienate other GMs, which gives him lots of opportunities to improve his team.
I think pretty easily that is odin, but a strong case can be made for @majic and druce. [editor's note: so two cases can be made for Druce] Those two always have competitive teams but I think what sets odin apart is how willing he is to blow it up and start a rebuild when necessary. This is a doubled edged sword which can at times result in hasty moves - such as that trade I mentioned earlier where he sent me T-Mac who went on to win three titles in Orlando. But the fracs don't lie, the Allfather's teams are always competitive.
Druce. Was consistently at the top of the West in the seasons he was active but never had the playoff luck to win it all.
I think odin and troybarnes are well equipped to compete. They are active, understand winning, and both are part of an Alabama cabal that should make it easier to find willing trade partners when the small peripheral deals need to get done.
Druce and Ankly. Ankly has always been really good at building teams when engaged and Druce is always competitive even though he didn’t get over the top at the end of 5. I like his draft
A lot of former GMs have returned for 6.0, which returning GM will the first to win a title in 6.0?
It sure looks like dirt is trying to be that guy. He should be the favorite in the West (and possibly the whole league) for the first 3 years, so I would point to him as the likeliest "new" GM to capture a title. The other option would be Ank, I suppose, as of the 5-6 GMs that seem to be all-in on winning early, he's the only other one in the returning category.
Dirt with soup in the next slot based on who seems to be going all-in at the start of the league.
I would lean towards a former commish, that intimate knowledge of the software always pays dividends. The one who immediately jumps out is dirt. He's been the most aggressive early on and that usually pays off, plus I like his draft the most thus far of the former commishes. If his initial push falls short, I would lean toward heebs next.
Ankly. It’ll be really important to him to come out of the gates firing so he can keep doing his Ank shtick. In a “surprising” turn of events, he acquired 1.1 in the Creation Draft and picked who appears to be the best player. He’ll win a title or two while everyone else is trying to figure out what they’re doing, then quit as soon as he’s not the clear-cut favorite, just like he did in 5.0.
Let's go with dirt. I feel like he's gone the hardest to put together a winning squad straight out of the gate.
All of you were GMs in 4.0, GM'd throughout 5.0, and are back for 6.0. What about sim league makes you stick around?
Probably some sort of disorder, frankly. I've lost interest in most fantasy sports, but I love the idea of team building. My favorite part of old NCAA games was always the recruiting process and I love Football Manager... so this set-up scratches that itch. Basketball being my favorite sport helps that a good deal, though I'll never forgive Odin (I think it was Odin) who busted both Dirk and Luka in early 5.0. There is also, of course, some level of camaraderie found here that is valuable. As Bilbo Baggins says "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Camaraderie of the group is a big part of it. I'm easily entertained (especially during the work week) even by BK's antics. Like a lot of us, I've been a stat-nerd since I was a kid following sports so sim league & all it's machinations is just something that's right up my ally in that regard - particularly with the great features that eric has added as commish.
That's pretty easy, the competition. I have always been a big gamer, sports fan and athlete. Work, getting married and having kids has really cut in the opportunities I have to compete with others and the league really helps fill that void, even more so with the Covid situation.
Lots of good dudes are here and I’ve developed some great friendships. When Fecta asked me to join the league, we were probably better described as acquaintances than friends. I think we had only hung out after work hours when it was still work-related (happy hours, team events, etc.). He asked me to join the league, then he pulled me into a podcast, started watching sports together, going for runs, and a couple of years later I was the best man in his wedding. [editor's note: I did not know this and this is cool.]
Something to pass the time at work when things get slow.
Any parting words to the league or specific GMs?
Good luck to everyone, can't wait to kickoff this new league once we get thru this grueling creation draft.
(jk Odin, I forgive you)
Don't let the worst part of the league for me (the randomness and stupidity of the playoffs) drive you too crazy. Building a great team and then having an injury or random upset derail that in a matter of an hour has made me want to rage quit multiple times. I'll take a few days break and because I love FA that gets me right back into it again.
No, not really. I’m really excited to have so many GMs back who will shoot the shit but also talk a bit of sim in Shout. To the last question, one of my favorite things about the league is the debate over the quality of players. Lots of that faded with a reduced 5.0. When you have 15 GMs and half aren’t paying attention, the actual sim-related talk is limited.
You guys were the winningest GMs in 5.0. Can you give those of us that haven't played in an Eric-run league a few tips on how you approach team building in an Eric-run league?
- Read the draft profiles and take everything literally and how it relates to the attribute categories that we have in our league. If it says they don't pass the ball much you might think that's not a great attribute in real life but here it means low passing, low turnovers. That works conversely. If he's a top flight athlete and a dynamo dunker, while in real life that means a lot of easy, high efficiency baskets, here it just means higher jumping attribute so higher scoring volume with no positive impact to efficiency.
- Don't underestimate the value of later picks. There are a couple of different builds where you can consistently find some value later in the draft. Look for the non-profile guys who have valuable attributes as a strength and invest in them...with +40, mentors, camps, and a potential to be a hidden gem you can dredge the depths of the draft board to find some utility and round out your roster with valuable skills for cheap.
- Don't give up a ton of value for bucks, you can earn them in a variety of ways where you don't have to give up any roster value.
I don't think there is much of a difference to the approach in an eric run league vs any other league. I always try to maximize scoring and efficiency and limit turnovers and bad shots. I guess the only difference would be knowing the types of players eric built that didn't work out. What immediately comes to mind is the 3 and D wing, it's just a dangerous player build from eric to pursue imo because of some of the greats simply didn't work out in 5.0, like Ray Allen. But that could have been more a TC problem and not an eric problem, who knows.
I think the biggest difference in an eric-run league is that there is no 1 set way to build. We saw a variety of successful teams build primarily through the draft, FA, and/or trades. The knowledge of the Wheel lets you know when you will have the best chance to strike with multiple potential draft hits, so you can time your contract lengths and draft to win for certain 3-4 year windows. Trading (during the Wheel) was a key component as well. Given 29 GMs, there will always be someone willing to trade a valuable player for a high draft pick, so I expect to see the trade market hopping (as it already has been) for the duration.
As far as your actual team, you can win in many ways. We've seen outside and inside teams win. We've seen teams win with a stud PG (Irving Mavs, Robertson Bulls), teams with D/R bigs (Odin's late-era Bobcats with Capela/Mourning), and teams with star wings (LBJ Bulls, McGrady Magic). I think the biggest takeaway we saw from all of those teams is that you couldn't win with a big weak-link in your team... but that was with 14 GMs. With a full league I imagine more flawed teams will have a chance, as there aren't likely to be teams that finish Top 5 in O and D.
Don't be afraid to team build around bigs anymore. Eric has done a great job of making the distribution of positional efficiency much better. Also, take advantage of the scouting option and use it if you have a top 10 pick.
I’ve only been a GM for two “extended” tenures - 20s and Odin - apart from Eric. The best advice I can give when it comes to Eric compared to the other two is that he’s the most committed to following things as they’re written, both when it comes to player profiles and the rules. Gone are the days where you can be reasonably sure a guy out of Nebraska (20s) or a guy with a weird name (Odin) are going to be all-stars. Additionally, if you’re hoping that you might be able to get your trade posted at 1:01pm on deadline day approved when the deadline was at 1pm, good luck.
Given your perspective on Eric-run leagues, give me your top 3 drafts so far and your bottom 3 drafts. (editor's note: one of our former interns, who was told not to use us as a reference for future employment, drafted this question poorly. Some GMs answered this as top drafts from 5.0. Others answered as top 5 creation drafts. In Delap's case we asked for a revised response, but in the interests of time we did not ask for revised responses from all GMs. We have included all responses.)
2003 - LeBron, D-Wade, Darko, Bosh, and Korver ended up with varying levels of success, but all were key pieces on good teams. Josh Howard stuck around a long time and was the subject of controversy as well. Many thought he was an above average starter. Some thought he was awful.
2011 - Kyrie was the best point guard we saw in 5.0, Valanciunas was a HOF big man, Kawhi was the best defensive wing we’ve seen by a long shot, and there were plenty of guys who were starting caliber at some point (Tobias Harris, Enes Kanter, Jimmy Butler).
2020 - This probably shouldn’t count as Eric started beefing up rookies when we reached the end of 5.0 so that they could be relevant, but tons of guys from this class were very good. Killian Hayes, Cole Anthony, Patrick Williams, Isaac Okoro, Saddiq Bey, and a couple of others.
Two of my top 3 were pretty easy as I had the #1 pick in no-brainer drafts with Magic & KAT. For my third, I'd probably go with the draft where I had the 2nd & 9th picks - #2 was Pistol Pete who only played for me for 4 seasons but at #9 I was able to nab Big Bob Lanier who ended up with probably the best career of anyone in the class (Honorable Mention picking Cazzie Russell with the last pick of the 1st round in one of the early drafts).
Bottom 3:
- Passing on Jerry Lucas to take Nate Thurmond. Nate was a league average type big but Lucas turned into a volume monster.
- Khris Middleton with #5. Luckily, there wasn't anyone behind him that made me regret it too much but woof was Middleton not good.
- Rodney Carney in the 2nd round. Actually, ended up a great pick but I gave on him after 2 season & he ended up a stud D wing for JHB for about 10 seasons.
- I'm going to mix this up a little bit because I don't want to just give 3 and 3
- Top draft so far is dirt. He's put together a team with a clear vision and he was the most successful at going hard to acquire picks without selling himself out to not be able to also acquire depth to fill out his roster in the creation draft. He's put together a frontcourt with great defense between Hines, Grady, and Upshaw and there's not a real weakness on the boards between them. He can focus his offense on the outside and spread it among three great scorers in Gathers, Riva, and Kirkland. He's got some age to his team but if he's smart with his upgrades and saves money for some Germany trips, with the contract lengths he's got I wouldn't be shocked if he was a two-time winner to start TMBSL 6.
- If I have to choose a second favorite draft so far it may be the Grizzlies. He's acquired a lot of scoring and will likely push to have the most efficient offense right off the bat. My concern with his roster may be the lack of defense and how that fares in the playoffs when he runs into a team like the Clippers who can also score but play much better defensively.
- TBD draft so far is Odin. I know he's supposed to be doing a trade for some players but right now the assembly of talent he has seems incomplete and he's a little over-leveraged with the way he's traded for talent now. So once we sees how he fills out the depth and what those trades do we'll be able to make an assessment. But right now I tend to worry he went all out for a team that could compete but he won't be able to touch dirt. Another that I feel this way about is the Sixers. I think they did a good job accumulating assets but I don't know if any of the youth they invested in will pan out. Personally not a fan of software guys.
- Not a fan of what I'm seeing from the Bulls, they don't have any top 8 draft picks in the next two seasons and they haven't drafted a single player with an actual elite skill. Harler is high efficiency but low volume, Calipari passes a lot but turns it over, he's got absolutely no defense, and one of his picks is a software filler already with D potential. I don't get it. The Heat are another team where I'm worried about their ability to compete. No defense, their scorers tend to be better at volume than efficiency, and they have don't have a single non-PG player who isn't lower than a C rating in turnover stats. This team is going to be super inefficient on offense and they don't do anything on defense. Pipers are another draft that looks a mess. No elite skills, went way in on passing (someone should have told him).
- The following teams should be around the top of the league and be somewhat competitive and had solid drafts if not spectacular: Magic, Hawks, Mavericks, Cougars (I think they have some big upside with how good their defense should be and the scoring punch of Kickingstallionsims and Diebler), Nets, Pacers, Raptors.
- The Knicks will be interesting depending on how Ank fills out his roster. He has the ability to turn George and Dubljevic into a really good frontcourt with some upgrades to George's inside scoring but right now he still needs a lot of help in his starting lineup and not a lot of places left to find it.
Tough to say right now, I think the guys that traded back into the 1st and 2nd round multiple times are clearly the front runners based on the information we have at this juncture. odin's Bobcats look solid with Wayne Estes, Demetrius Mitchell and what I believe will be James Blackmon Jr. after a pending trade. delapthrows Raptors also look good with picks like Sergei Belov, Luke Recker and Walter Magnifico. Tough to separate some others but I like what I see with dirt's Clippers with Hank Gathers, Antonella Riva and my dark horse MVP candidate Pee Wee Kirkland. There are some others that were hard to leave out like druce's Grizzlies and TimPig's SuperSonics who have turned their creation draft capital into future assets.
Bottom 3 is really hard to say because a lot of guys have traded for future picks so I'm trying to leave those guys out. I would say Mike's Bulls leave a lot to be desired and haven't acquired any future assets. @boomslick's Pelicans also find themselves with what appears to be little talent and no future assets. And sadly ba's Pipers look to be in the a similar place with a lack of good players now and future assets outside of their own.
Original Response
Top 3 Drafts for the delap-led Mavericks in 5.0:
2045: The 2nd-to-last draft of 5.0. I had the 1 spot in the Wheel, but I also broke my team down in the years leading up to '45 to nab extra picks and move up in prior drafts. I ended up with George Gervin at 1.1, Bobby Jones at 1.5, and Gus Williams at 1.14. Through the machinations of the years prior and 2 contributing rookies, I managed to nab the title that year. Not bad.
2043: Landed Xavier McDaniel at 1.3 and jumped back into the 1st round to get Terry Porter, both of whom became rock-solid starters for the Mavs for the remainder of 5.0.
2036/39: Shortly after the introduction of our Minor League teams, I took a stronger approach than anyone else to fill that roster and scatter-shot at draft picks. For that very reason these drafts were fun. I landed 8 players in 2036 (Bargnani and Sene were hits, the rest... not so much) and 4 more in 2039, including the best 3rd Rd pick of 5.0, Mr. Dragan Tarlac.
Worst Drafts for the delap-led Mavericks in 5.0:
I'll just group together basically every draft from 2017 until we started wheel. In those many drafts, immediately following my obvious pick of Kyrie Irving... I only managed to find one starter (Peja) out of a dozen total picks in a condensed league. It was a shameful era.
Revised response
Top 3:
Ank picked the right man at #1. It was a no-brainer to me, which I know it was not for some other 5.0 GMs... but Dubljevic is young, still has potential, and will be a beast offensively. I'll cheat and pick 3 more... a tie for the 2nd spot is skrouse's pick of Wrenn at 3 and druce's pick of Cooke at 9. I'm really high on them and think they were clearly the best two SGs in the draft. Cooke falling to 9 was especially egregious, because I don't expect much from the 3 right above him. Finally, I'll pick one of my own to brag a bit: Sergei Belov is the best PG in the draft and PG still matters a ton in Sim League... and I got him at 18. Yes, I know he's old, but he should be in MVP-contention for 3 seasons and fell to 18. Not as bad as the fall of Firsto Picko in 5.0... but still bad.
Bottom 3:
[disclaimer: no ill will to those who made these picks] Editor's Note: but he does judge you all poorly.
As I mentioned on Pod Save 5.0, Mike's pick of John Calipari is incredibly strange. I had him as a 3rd/4th rounder and I wouldn't have taken him in front of the next 15 or so picks. It was the worst pick of the draft up until.... the Bulls next selection of Chase Harler. Harler looks fine until you see "F" potential for a 21 yr old. I can handle F for a super old dude... but F at 21 is the biggest possible danger sign and Mike just sped through it. The other spot to point to is Shawn Kemp Jr. Throughout 5.0 we saw many hyper-athletic bigs without other skills (even with a ton of potential!) that just never translated into great players: Aaron Gordon, Blake Griffin, Antonio McDyess, Tom Chambers, etc... they were all fine, but not great. You can't make that pick at 6 in a creation draft. Fecta should know that as much as anyone... because he drafted Blake Griffin in 5.0 and Blake was out of the league in 4 years (he probably deserved to live a little longer, but died on the FA vine)
There was a pretty clear top 5 GMs from 5.0 (putting aside the erics and anklys of 5.0 that left early) - how do you guys think you rank among yourselfs?
TimPig
Ward
JHB
Skrouse
Delap
I think there can only be an argument for two guys at #1, and as this is a results based business I have to go with TimPig - a ridiculous number of titles and they weren't luck, TimPig went out and traded for the LBJ pick and as soon as he retired and 5.0 began to wind down he found another great SF in Jamaal Wilkes who helped him secure yet another title. That makes @warddunn the clear #2, the only gm with a title in every decade of 5.0. A constant contender and even after he took a season off his team was still good enough to make the ECF on autopilot. I would put jhb at #3, he's a better judge of talent I am and he won more consistently than delap. Always a tough negotiator but never afraid to move on from a guy when he knows he can't win. I would put myself at #4 again based on results along, five titles vs two. But honestly I can chalk up the first three titles to one trade and a #1 overall pick that was due to a contraction, so that makes delapthrows #5 but all things considered we are even more even than it appears looking solely at rings.
1. Tim (# of titles speak for themselves)
2. Myself (2nd most titles, best winning percentage)
3. jhb (jumped in a few seasons late but once he did he had a top 5 team most every season)
4. skrouse (last few season run & what he did with rookie FA was very impressive)
5. delap (always a solid team with the chance to make a deep playoff run and occasionally pull of the whole thing)
I'm definitely 5th. I'm only on the list because of a high-floor constancy. My ceiling was never what it was among these other guys.
5. delap
4. skrouse - had some very high highs... but probably also the lowest lows (which still weren't bad) among this group.
3. jhb
2. ward
1. tim
Tim
Ward
Me
Skrouse
Everyone else
That was pretty much the four best teams after I came back to the league in 2019 until the end. In fact, from 2015 until the end of 5.0 those teams account for 31 of 36 titles.
Most 5.0 GMs have returned for 6.0, what 5.0 GM not included in this RT do you think will be the most competitive in 6.0?
Druce. He put together a lot of really good teams in 5.0 that could never quite get him over the hump. He drafts and approaches free agency well and his attitude when trading is one that doesn’t usually alienate other GMs, which gives him lots of opportunities to improve his team.
I think pretty easily that is odin, but a strong case can be made for @majic and druce. [editor's note: so two cases can be made for Druce] Those two always have competitive teams but I think what sets odin apart is how willing he is to blow it up and start a rebuild when necessary. This is a doubled edged sword which can at times result in hasty moves - such as that trade I mentioned earlier where he sent me T-Mac who went on to win three titles in Orlando. But the fracs don't lie, the Allfather's teams are always competitive.
Druce. Was consistently at the top of the West in the seasons he was active but never had the playoff luck to win it all.
I think odin and troybarnes are well equipped to compete. They are active, understand winning, and both are part of an Alabama cabal that should make it easier to find willing trade partners when the small peripheral deals need to get done.
Druce and Ankly. Ankly has always been really good at building teams when engaged and Druce is always competitive even though he didn’t get over the top at the end of 5. I like his draft
A lot of former GMs have returned for 6.0, which returning GM will the first to win a title in 6.0?
It sure looks like dirt is trying to be that guy. He should be the favorite in the West (and possibly the whole league) for the first 3 years, so I would point to him as the likeliest "new" GM to capture a title. The other option would be Ank, I suppose, as of the 5-6 GMs that seem to be all-in on winning early, he's the only other one in the returning category.
Dirt with soup in the next slot based on who seems to be going all-in at the start of the league.
I would lean towards a former commish, that intimate knowledge of the software always pays dividends. The one who immediately jumps out is dirt. He's been the most aggressive early on and that usually pays off, plus I like his draft the most thus far of the former commishes. If his initial push falls short, I would lean toward heebs next.
Ankly. It’ll be really important to him to come out of the gates firing so he can keep doing his Ank shtick. In a “surprising” turn of events, he acquired 1.1 in the Creation Draft and picked who appears to be the best player. He’ll win a title or two while everyone else is trying to figure out what they’re doing, then quit as soon as he’s not the clear-cut favorite, just like he did in 5.0.
Let's go with dirt. I feel like he's gone the hardest to put together a winning squad straight out of the gate.
All of you were GMs in 4.0, GM'd throughout 5.0, and are back for 6.0. What about sim league makes you stick around?
Probably some sort of disorder, frankly. I've lost interest in most fantasy sports, but I love the idea of team building. My favorite part of old NCAA games was always the recruiting process and I love Football Manager... so this set-up scratches that itch. Basketball being my favorite sport helps that a good deal, though I'll never forgive Odin (I think it was Odin) who busted both Dirk and Luka in early 5.0. There is also, of course, some level of camaraderie found here that is valuable. As Bilbo Baggins says "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Camaraderie of the group is a big part of it. I'm easily entertained (especially during the work week) even by BK's antics. Like a lot of us, I've been a stat-nerd since I was a kid following sports so sim league & all it's machinations is just something that's right up my ally in that regard - particularly with the great features that eric has added as commish.
That's pretty easy, the competition. I have always been a big gamer, sports fan and athlete. Work, getting married and having kids has really cut in the opportunities I have to compete with others and the league really helps fill that void, even more so with the Covid situation.
Lots of good dudes are here and I’ve developed some great friendships. When Fecta asked me to join the league, we were probably better described as acquaintances than friends. I think we had only hung out after work hours when it was still work-related (happy hours, team events, etc.). He asked me to join the league, then he pulled me into a podcast, started watching sports together, going for runs, and a couple of years later I was the best man in his wedding. [editor's note: I did not know this and this is cool.]
Something to pass the time at work when things get slow.
Any parting words to the league or specific GMs?
Good luck to everyone, can't wait to kickoff this new league once we get thru this grueling creation draft.
(jk Odin, I forgive you)
Don't let the worst part of the league for me (the randomness and stupidity of the playoffs) drive you too crazy. Building a great team and then having an injury or random upset derail that in a matter of an hour has made me want to rage quit multiple times. I'll take a few days break and because I love FA that gets me right back into it again.
No, not really. I’m really excited to have so many GMs back who will shoot the shit but also talk a bit of sim in Shout. To the last question, one of my favorite things about the league is the debate over the quality of players. Lots of that faded with a reduced 5.0. When you have 15 GMs and half aren’t paying attention, the actual sim-related talk is limited.
