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Post by delap on Jul 7, 2021 19:32:56 GMT -5
PreSeason - Initial Rankings DC is at #1 right now, but he's a bit underwhelming at the start. No one in the class has blown up to look like a runaway star... but there is some decent talent to appreciate right now. Off the ladder though? A really weak crop. I can usually justify 10 HMs... and it's a stretch to get to 5-6 right now. Yikes.
1. Derrick Coleman - Atlanta Hawks Top 5ish in efficiency, scoring, and rebounding... defense is so-so, turnovers are so-so. However, his incredible potential and a infusion of uppies could boost him considerably. Like I said, while he's probably the best build that we know of, his production leaves his spot here vulnerable at the moment.
2. Antonio Davis - Phoenix Suns Average-ish on efficiency for the league, 4th in scoring, 2nd in rebounding, strong-ish defense.
3. Dwayne Schintzius - Boston Celtics Low MPG... so this is a very provisional placement... but he leads the class in P/TSA, volume isn't bad, and he looks to be the 2nd best defender in the class (behind Elden Campbell, appearing later on this ladder!). He rebounds like Embiid though, so unless that changes he may be effectively capped from here on out.
4. Cedric Ceballos - Toronto Raptors 3rd leading scorer in the class, scoring 30% more than the next wing on the list and averaging a full rebound/36 more than the next wing in the group. TOs and FT% are problematic and keeping up him from being the solid #2 right now.
5. Bo Kimble - Los Angeles Clippers The #2 wing scorer, but a bad rebounder, Kimble has a great looking jumpshot and should be a weapon in an outside offense for years to come. He takes care of the ball, averaging less than a TO per 36.
6. Dennis Scott - Boston Celtics Decent scoring, fair rebounding... but I guess he takes care of the ball? 3D looks like possibly a no-D player, with no stealing to speak of for a wing and no blocks at all in the PreSeason.
7. Felton Spencer - Pittsburgh Pipers 1st in scoring, but not efficient... rebounding is weak for a big and he doesn't play D either... but he doesn't really turn it over. If he could get his boards up to average for a center he could be a real player.
8. Kendall Gill - Philadelphia 76ers 2nd in efficiency and what looks like a lock-down defender, Mr. Gill is this low because his volume just isn't great and he is a below-average rebounder as well. That said, he has a distinct role and can fit in as a glue-type on any roster already.
9. Tyrone Hill - Portland Trail Blazers He'd be much higher if he were efficient (he's clearly a step below everyone else above this spot on the ladder), but he's high volume and a great rebounder (1st in the class!). Keep an eye on him as a player who could rise quickly if his upgrades get his P/TSA up.
10. Elden Campbell - Indiana Pacers The "Awful Offense/Great DR Memorial" ladder spot goes to Mr. Campbell. Easily the best D stats... but not a great rebounder, really. Like Birch last year, he probably shoots more than you would like for a true DR big.
Honorable Mentions:
Points: Travis Mays - Vancouver Grizzlies
Wings: Dave Jamerson - New York Knicks Lionel Simmons - Washington Bullets
Bigs: Cedric Ball - Dallas Mavericks Alaa Abdelnaby - Utah Jazz Steve Scheffler - Vancouver Grizzlies
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Post by 20s on Jul 7, 2021 19:54:56 GMT -5
No Dee Brown?
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Jul 7, 2021 19:57:11 GMT -5
I’m going to imagine the final rankings are going to look vastly different
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Post by delap on Jul 7, 2021 20:03:33 GMT -5
I’m going to imagine the final rankings are going to look vastly different
I concur.
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Post by delap on Jul 7, 2021 20:04:20 GMT -5
6mpg is just too small a sample
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Post by 20s on Jul 7, 2021 20:08:04 GMT -5
6mpg is just too small a sample
Fair enough. |
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Post by delap on Jul 12, 2021 8:38:13 GMT -5
Day 40Solid 10... but not much after that. Looks like the shallowest total class we've had thus far in 6.0. Top 4-5 players at this moment are incredibly close. 1. Cedric Ceballos - Toronto Raptors (previous: 4)TOs are down from PS, efficiency is still incredible (2nd in the class), and he rebounds like a mad man. Defensive numbers aren't great, but the 1/2 block per 36 isn't too bad.  2. Bo Kimble - Los Angeles Clippers (previous: 5)Scoring machine, 3rd in efficiency, and just doesn't turn it over. Throw in 1.5 steals/36 and Kimble looks quite legit. He's a weak rebounder, though, and that is unlikely to ever change.  3. Derrick Coleman - Atlanta Hawks (previous: 1)Even after upgrades and what we know is a great grade-set, Coleman is not living up to expectations. He's still great, and still might be the best player in the class... but we want to see more from him to grab the top spot.  4. Felton Spencer - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 7)The rare point-a-minute player, Spencer is also 1st in P/TSA thanks to an incredible FG% and FT% (especially for a big on the latter). However, he doesn't rebound well and isn't a defensive force. He could be the good volume on a bad team guy, so watch out for that.  5. Dave Jamerson - New York Knicks (previous: HM)Great scoring wing, solid rebounder, and takes care of the rock. Might only excel in an outside offense, but that isn't the biggest knock. His steal rate, especially for a SG, is pathetic, though.  6. Antonio Davis - Phoenix Suns (previous: 2)Overall production is down from the PreSeason, but he's still efficient and good enough at scoring and rebounding to warrant inclusion. Defense could be better.  7. Dee Brown - Carolina Cougars (previous: NR)The league can always use a score-first, high-volume PG... and that's what Dee is. He's efficient, he has a very high steal rate... but he gives it away a ton as well.  8a. Terry Mills - Utah Jazz (previous: NR)
8b. Tyrone Hill - Portland Trail Blazers (previous: 9)Very similar scoring output, with Mills being significantly more efficient. Hill is a superior rebounder. Neither is a good defender, but Hill has the edge there as well. Mills doesn't turn it over, though.   10. Dennis Scott - Boston Celtics (previous: 6)Defense is still putrid, but other than that he's a solid all-around wing. More volume would be nice, but his efficiency is probably lower than it will be, as I expect both his FT% and his 3P% to increase naturally.  Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Rumeal Robinson - Utah Jazz
Steve Henson - Philadelphia 76ers
Wings:
Stevie Thompson - Houston Rockets
Lionel Simmons - Washington Bullets
Bigs:
Jayson Williams - Houston Rockets
Alan Ogg - Charlotte Bobcats
Les Jepsen - Charlotte Hornets
Elden Campbell - Indiana Pacers
Alec Kessler - Charlotte Bobcats
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Post by 20s on Jul 12, 2021 8:42:28 GMT -5
Brown’s turnover rate doesn’t make any sense based on his handling/passing ratio. I expect it to come down.
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Jul 12, 2021 21:33:25 GMT -5
Gill will make the list... but he has a hole to dig out due to no fault of himself. Sorry KG
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Post by Dirt on Jul 13, 2021 7:23:02 GMT -5
Longterm Jamerson will be #2 because of mentor status
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Post by Dirt on Jul 13, 2021 7:23:42 GMT -5
Bologna otb  |
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Post by Majic on Jul 13, 2021 8:22:23 GMT -5
I would argue Hill is a sneaky good defender. I know his post D is high, he just doesn't have high defensive stat numbers.
Blazers are top 10 in team defense with him playing big minutes.
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Post by delap on Jul 16, 2021 14:35:55 GMT -5
Day 90 UpdateOne ladder-worthy player gets left off (Antonio Davis), but thems the breaks sometimes. After Antonio Davis the drop-off is pretty steep. 1. Cedric Ceballos - Toronto Raptors (previous: 1)TOs down from the last update, scoring volume up, P/TSA still very strong (2nd in the class). Strongest rebounding wing in the class, averaging nearly 2 boards/36 more than any other wing (among those with qualifying minutes).  2. Derrick Coleman - Atlanta Hawks (previous: 3)Still a force in offense and on the boards, but the defense is pretty undesirable. Not sure he'll be the over-the-top elite elite player we all thought he would be, but he's a clear All-Star type every year from here on out.  3a. Bo Kimble - Orlando Magic (previous: 2)
3b. Dave Jamerson - New York Knicks (previous: 5)You want elite scoring SGs? We got 'em right here (gestures suggestively). Kimble doesn't rebound, but is a master thief. Jamerson somehow averages less than a steal/36, but his rebounding is at least so-so. Neither turn it over, both are efficient.   5. Felton Spencer - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 4)He scores in bunches (still 1st in the class, but about 3-4 pp36 less than he was scoring at last update), but that's his only skill. The 4 ahead of him are solidly ahead of him.  6. Dennis Scott - Boston Celtics (previous: 10)Scoring volume and P/TSA are trending up. He's not elite at anything, but doesn't have any major major weaknesses.  7. Dee Brown - Carolina Cougars (previous: 7)Not efficient, but he scores a good bit. His rebounding is not great, but he's a PG so what does it matter? His steal rate is pretty solid though.  8. Lionel Simmons - Washington Bullets (previous: HM)Hello... is it me you're looking for? Very efficient, 2nd in boards among non-bigs (behind Ced.) Plays some D, doesn't turn it over. I like Lionel.  9a. Terry Mills - Utah Jazz (previous: 8a)
9b. Tyrone Hill - Portland Trail Blazers ((previous: 8b)Yoked together again, ahead of Antonio Davis by virtue of P/TSA mostly. Mills is all gas, no brakes on offense, but plays no defense. Hill tries a bit more on defense and rebounds, but his scoring rate/efficiency don't match the main man in Utah.   Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Steven Henson - Philadelphia 76ers
Rumeal Robinson - Utah Jazz
Wings:
Stevie Thompson - Houston Rockets
Bigs:
Elden Campbell - Indiana Pacers
Antonio Davis - Phoenix Suns
Jayson Williams - Houston Rockets
Les Jepsen - Charlotte Hornets
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Post by delap on Jul 21, 2021 11:05:43 GMT -5
Rookie Ladder - Final UpdateCongrats to me, skrouse please give me 1k of my own funds. I really really like Ceballos, Coleman, and Kimble... but hold some serious reservations about Jamerson in a non-Kyrie outside offense and Felton Spencer on any team with a pulse. The rest of the ladder is just some guys... but Dennis Scott, I suppose, has the most breakout potential. Maybe Dee Brown? Overall the ladder hasn't changed much since the last update, with only the last man falling off and the first HM jumping to that spot. 1. Cedric Ceballos - Toronto Raptors (previous: 1)2nd in P/TSA, 3rd in scoring, just as many steals and blocks as Derrick Coleman, plus an absolutely stellar rebounder from the wing.  2. Derrick Coleman - Atlanta Hawks (previous: 2)DC and the Hawks win the real prize, so he can be happy with #2 here. 3rd in P/TSA and very good on the boards, software loves this guy.  3. Bo Kimble - Orlando Magic (previous: 3a)Dynamic scoring, low TOs, efficiency, and a good steal rate... the only thing missing is rebounding, which is a major drag on his future success. Other than that, he looks dang good.  4. Dave Jamerson - New York Knicks (previous: 3b)Gotta love that non-profile SG that makes a major splash every season or two. Jamerson scores efficiently and often, and is actually an average rebounder. He defense is super-bad though. Don't expect much growth from him, so he may have peaked in year one.  5. Felton Spencer - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 5)Same deal as before, big time scorer on a bad team... not sure how that translates to a good team or with other good players. Defense is porous, rebounding is below average.  6. Dennis Scott - Boston Celtics (previous: 6)He scores well, but not super well. Rebounding is a slight negative. Maybe there is more to what dump saw in him in the scouts, but I lean toward no. He's a solid starter, but not a star.  7. Dee Brown - Carolina Cougars (previous: 7)Dee will only take a leap forward if he can be more efficient from 2pt land... which is a big ask. If he gets some growth there in TC he could be a real scoring force, otherwise he's capped at solid starter.  8. Lionel Simmons - Washington Bullets (previous: 8)"I killed a "Gold Lionel" on Master Mode Simmons" seems like the perfect wing for any team looking for a plug and play starter. He doesn't do anything poorly, contributes at least a little from all levels of the offense, and does the dirty work on the glass.  9. Terry Mills - Utah Jazz (previous: 9a)He is a slightly worse version of Felton Spencer... and may just be putting up stats on a bad team. That said, his high FT% makes me think the scoring is repeatable. That said, his defense is doo doo and his rebounding isn't better.  10. Antonio Davis - Phoenix Suns (previous: HM)He gets the final spot over Tyrone Hill by virtue of a stronger defensive profile. I really like his rebounding and his playable FT% is the final push he needed to secure the last spot on the ladder.  Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Steve Henson - Philadelphia 76ers
Wings:
Stevie Thompson - Houston Rockets
Kendall Gill - Philadelphia 76ers
Bigs:
Tyrone Hill - Portland Trail Blazers
Jasyon Williams - Houston Rockets
Alaa Abdelnaby - Utah Jazz
Elden Campbell - Indiana Pacers
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Post by 20s on Jul 21, 2021 11:07:06 GMT -5
Dee was a disappointment, hopefully he steps it up.
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jhb
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Post by jhb on Jul 21, 2021 11:08:20 GMT -5
.190 WS/48 (DC)
.150 WS/48 (Bo)
.127 WS/48 (Ced)
.126 WS/48 (Jamerson)
.146 WS/48 (Davis)
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Post by 20s on Jul 21, 2021 11:11:14 GMT -5
.190 WS/48 (DC) .150 WS/48 (Bo) .127 WS/48 (Ced) .126 WS/48 (Jamerson) .146 WS/48 (Davis) Keep going! |
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Post by TinyTimPig on Jul 21, 2021 11:12:40 GMT -5
70,000.
I like Ceballos a lot. I don't like that it appears you're going to have to constantly adjust your wing roster to ensure he gets minutes.
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Post by 20s on Jul 21, 2021 11:13:06 GMT -5
80k
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Post by Ankly on Jul 21, 2021 11:13:07 GMT -5
Jamerson should get another +10 into his 3's from mentoring. What a stud.
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Post by 20s on Jul 21, 2021 11:17:56 GMT -5
Jamerson should get another +10 into his 3's from mentoring. What a stud. This is what I thought about Joe Harris. Better hope Kyrie stays healthy. |
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jhb
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Posts: 1,349
Likes: 396
Joined: January 2021
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Post by jhb on Jul 21, 2021 11:49:01 GMT -5
75k
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Post by Dirt on Jul 21, 2021 11:50:57 GMT -5
Simmons too low
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Post by Majic on Jul 21, 2021 12:15:21 GMT -5
Disagree with Hills ranking.
Hill ended up better WS numbers than both Felton and Mills.
He is slightly less efficient but both of those guys have been fully upgaded. Hill has another +10 to improve his game.
I also know his defensive ratings are pretty good/decent. He wont have high blocks but otherwise he is a sneaky decent defender.
75k
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Post by skrouse on Jul 21, 2021 12:18:24 GMT -5
70K
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Post by Yawn of the Dead on Jul 21, 2021 12:58:00 GMT -5
80k
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