|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 16, 2021 12:08:06 GMT -5
When I first read the casino rules, which say you may only spend 10k per season, I thought it meant we may only LOSE 10k. After a few bets, I realize now that I was wrong about that and I've only got 4k left to spend this season and we're only in round four of the draft. Whoops! I've cut my participation down and will likely try to make a handful of 1k or 500 bets over the next few weeks.
I propose a revision to the way casino works to increase participation and not be too cumbersome.
GMs allocate up to 10k from their bank to their casino at the beginning of a sim season. Once their bank hits zero, they're out of money for the season. They will, however, be able to allocate another 10k at the beginning of a season.
During the season GMs can bet up to [1k] a game with 3 bets max per daily casino. The max bet is to prevent abuse (daily casinos only use spreads for interesting games with big spreads - otherwise the -2.5 or -3.5 spreads are ignored and we have even money money lines).
A GM may withdraw from its casino for free at the end of the season and must withdraw if its casino exceeds 10k at the end of the season. A GM may withdraw from its casino with a 15% tax during the season.
The point of the system is to create a different economy/ecosystem for bucks and simplify the system for Bankz and Skrouse. Bankz will keep his own casino currency and Skrouse will keep his - with deposits and withdrawals occurring only once in while. The mid-season tax is to (i) allow GMs to access their casino currency but (ii) add a cost to disincentivize it.
Points to consider:
Should GMs be able to trade casino dollars mid season?
Should the GM with the highest casino balance at the end of the season get a reward?
Should the first GM to lose all their casino balance get a reward/penalty?
Should there be a max bet?
What should the max bet be?
|
|
|
|
Post by 20s on Jan 16, 2021 12:14:19 GMT -5
I like it.
|
|
|
|
Post by TinyTimPig on Jan 16, 2021 12:29:16 GMT -5
Classic Heebs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin on Jan 16, 2021 13:06:18 GMT -5
yes, but we need a poll
eric likes polls
|
|
|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 16, 2021 14:37:32 GMT -5
Updated with a poll. h/t Odin |
|
Soup
New Member
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 401
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by Soup on Jan 16, 2021 15:30:45 GMT -5
good idea, but I'm indifferent really. I don't feel casino should be too big as it doesn't add much content to the league but it's voluntary so I'm not willing to die on that hill.
As far as these questions:
Should GMs be able to trade casino dollars mid season? Sure why not.
Should the GM with the highest casino balance at the end of the season get a reward? No
Should the first GM to lose all their casino balance get a reward/penalty? No
Should there be a max bet? Yes, like I said the casino is supposed to be small and a little extra added benefit.
What should the max bet be? I think maybe 500 per game and 1000 for the day.
|
|
bankz
New Member
GM of the Year: 3001
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 490
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by bankz on Jan 16, 2021 16:03:21 GMT -5
I’m 100% on board with the changes outlined above. My only request is to allow people to wage what the want. If someone wants to lay 10k on a bet so be it. The lines I set will be tight anyways so it’s unrealistic an easy money bet is available to abuse.
Should GMs be able to trade casino dollars mid season? NO
Should the GM with the highest casino balance at the end of the season get a reward? NO
Should the first GM to lose all their casino balance get a reward/penalty? NO
Should there be a max bet? NO
What should the max bet be? None
|
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jan 16, 2021 16:03:32 GMT -5
if people want to do more small bids instead of fewer big bids they already can though, i don't see the point in forcing everyone to use the casino that way
i also don't see the point in introducing a second currency, especially one with so many more rules governing transactions. as it is now people can just go use the casino, just like they can just go use improvements, or just go make trades, or just do anything else with currency - if we're looking to increase participation it doesn't make sense to add a barrier to entry
when the premise is that people have a hazy understanding of rules (which is true) i don't think more rules is the solution. it seems more applicable to teach people the rules and, if necessary, adjust the season cap
|
|
Soup
New Member
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 401
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by Soup on Jan 16, 2021 16:08:34 GMT -5
I’m 100% on board with the changes outlined above. My only request is to allow people to wage what the want. If someone wants to lay 10k on a bet so be it. The lines I set will be tight anyways so it’s unrealistic an easy money bet is available to abuse. Should GMs be able to trade casino dollars mid season? NO Should the GM with the highest casino balance at the end of the season get a reward? NO Should the first GM to lose all their casino balance get a reward/penalty? NO Should there be a max bet? NO What should the max bet be? None are you suggesting no max single bet? no max for a season? or both? If it's the second we could get into some serious dangerous waters. |
|
|
|
Post by skrouse on Jan 16, 2021 17:02:47 GMT -5
I would say no changes to current rules other than changing the season max. But we can do that next season and beyond if needed
|
|
|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 16, 2021 17:23:48 GMT -5
if people want to do more small bids instead of fewer big bids they already can though, i don't see the point in forcing everyone to use the casino that way i also don't see the point in introducing a second currency, especially one with so many more rules governing transactions. as it is now people can just go use the casino, just like they can just go use improvements, or just go make trades, or just do anything else with currency - if we're looking to increase participation it doesn't make sense to add a barrier to entry when the premise is that people have a hazy understanding of rules (which is true) i don't think more rules is the solution. it seems more applicable to teach people the rules and, if necessary, adjust the season cap Sports betting is interesting when you have meaningful stakes on the line. 100 or 200 currency isn’t very meaningful. 500 or 1k is more meaningful. It makes the wager more interesting. It is the same currency. The rules around moving currency from one account to another is to help Bankz and Skrouse by having one transaction per GM per season (unless you want to pay the tax). |
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jan 16, 2021 17:54:54 GMT -5
if people want to do more small bids instead of fewer big bids they already can though, i don't see the point in forcing everyone to use the casino that way i also don't see the point in introducing a second currency, especially one with so many more rules governing transactions. as it is now people can just go use the casino, just like they can just go use improvements, or just go make trades, or just do anything else with currency - if we're looking to increase participation it doesn't make sense to add a barrier to entry when the premise is that people have a hazy understanding of rules (which is true) i don't think more rules is the solution. it seems more applicable to teach people the rules and, if necessary, adjust the season cap Sports betting is interesting when you have meaningful stakes on the line. 100 or 200 currency isn’t very meaningful. 500 or 1k is more meaningful. It makes the wager more interesting. It is the same currency. The rules around moving currency from one account to another is to help Bankz and Skrouse by having one transaction per GM per season (unless you want to pay the tax). that doesn't seem like it applies to what i said though, which is that people can bet 500 or 1000 now if they want, but they can also bet more, which if your premise about mo' money mo' interest is correct means the current system is better it's not the same currency if you have to ask if it's tradeable, since the current currency is tradeable. calling it a different account instead of a different currency seems like an irrelevant distinction if currency functions completely differently while it's in that account i'm not seeing it herb |
|
bankz
New Member
GM of the Year: 3001
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 490
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by bankz on Jan 16, 2021 18:08:46 GMT -5
Eric
I don’t think Heebs suggestions is very different than what’s in place already.
The only change would be IF you win on a bet you can continue to bet with it.
And the $ instead of daily being transferred would be transferred at season end unless you pay a penalty.
|
|
|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 16, 2021 18:24:32 GMT -5
Eric I don’t think Heebs suggestions is very different than what’s in place already. The only change would be IF you win on a bet you can continue to bet with it. And the $ instead of daily being transferred would be transferred at season end unless you pay a penalty. Yep. |
|
|
|
Post by skrouse on Jan 16, 2021 18:33:53 GMT -5
Sounds like we could just adjust the seasonal bet limit to a loss limit and leave the rest
|
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jan 16, 2021 20:14:03 GMT -5
Eric I don’t think Heebs suggestions is very different than what’s in place already. The only change would be IF you win on a bet you can continue to bet with it. And the $ instead of daily being transferred would be transferred at season end unless you pay a penalty. is an unlimited ceiling on casino winnings a good thing for the league though? per herb's statements 500 is an interesting wager, if we moved to a 20,000 season limit that's 40 interesting wagers a season, which when we don't have a two week draft is multiple interesting wagers a day. that seems to satisfy peoples' stated concerns without opening that pandora's box |
|
|
|
Post by TinyTimPig on Jan 16, 2021 20:20:08 GMT -5
I don't think 500 is all that interesting of a wager, FWIW. Half an upgrade point, ~1/100 of an article, etc. doesn't really move the needle much for me.
|
|
Soup
New Member
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 401
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by Soup on Jan 16, 2021 20:22:38 GMT -5
|
|
IanBoyd
New Member
Posts: 792
Likes: 252
Joined: December 2020
|
Post by IanBoyd on Jan 16, 2021 20:51:57 GMT -5
lol trading casino limits
that's some peak degeneracy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin on Jan 21, 2021 18:55:00 GMT -5
i just want a winnings limit rather than a betting limit
|
|
|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 22, 2021 10:01:09 GMT -5
I've given up on this initiative. I just don't care enough for the uphill battle. Feel free to take up the cross, Odin.
|
|
bankz
New Member
GM of the Year: 3001
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 490
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by bankz on Jan 22, 2021 15:40:43 GMT -5
I've given up on this initiative. I just don't care enough for the uphill battle. Feel free to take up the cross, Odin. Its not something that needs a final resolution now. But a cap on earnings is stupid. You will get the same result as a cap on spending. We already see that Casino action went from activity to nothing and I'm simply just posting massive free casinos and or big weekend slates. Eric a non gambler doesn't get idea and thus we may end up being stuck. Hopefully once the sim season is complete we can bump, analyze the data and make some changes. |
|
|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 22, 2021 15:44:09 GMT -5
I've given up on this initiative. I just don't care enough for the uphill battle. Feel free to take up the cross, Odin. Its not something that needs a final resolution now. But a cap on earnings is stupid. You will get the same result as a cap on spending. We already see that Casino action went from activity to nothing and I'm simply just posting massive free casinos and or big weekend slates. Eric a non gambler doesn't get idea and thus we may end up being stuck. Hopefully once the sim season is complete we can bump, analyze the data and make some changes. Probably right. To be clear the losses I suggested were caps on losing (net 10k loss max per season) and caps on individual bets. I don't think caps on earnings or spending are good. |
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jan 22, 2021 16:47:31 GMT -5
I don't think caps on earnings or spending are good. why? |
|
|
|
Post by Herby New Year! on Jan 22, 2021 20:12:28 GMT -5
I don't think caps on earnings or spending are good. why? They “punish” success. People that make successful bets should be able to continue betting. If I spend 10k and win every bet, it’s unsatisfying to be limited. Similarly if I win 10k worth of bets it is unsatisfying to be limited for being right. I think we should have some guardrails but it should be around how much a person can lose in a season. |
|
bankz
New Member
GM of the Year: 3001
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 490
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by bankz on Jan 22, 2021 20:51:45 GMT -5
Maybe a middle ground for the casino... - At the end of 3000 year regular season we reset all Casino accounts to 0
- GMs who want to participate in the casino may then make a withdraw from its currency up to 10k. (single lump sump, over multiple stages)
- Those funds will go into Casino Accounts (that I will keep track of and update daily)
- You may place bets using those funds moving forward with only the current limitations in place (3 bets per day)
- If you win the money will be added directly to your Casino account. You won't have a limit to how successful you can be.
- At season end you make the decision for how much money you want to withdraw from the account without penalty
- If at any point during the season you want to withdraw money from the casino account a penalty of 15% will be assessed
Under this set up the max a player can lose in a given season is 10k
If a player is successful you don't have a cap limiting participation in the casino
Edit: I think we can constantly revisit the issue if we see abuse or added safeguards need to be put in place. |
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jan 22, 2021 22:24:25 GMT -5
They “punish” success. People that make successful bets should be able to continue betting. If I spend 10k and win every bet, it’s unsatisfying to be limited. Similarly if I win 10k worth of bets it is unsatisfying to be limited for being right. I think we should have some guardrails but it should be around how much a person can lose in a season. you're not limited for being right though, you're limited because there's a limit to playing - you'd be just as "punished" for and "unsatisfied" by losing bets under the current system, and then in your system those WOULD be limited. how does that make sense? if we say you get three swings, you're not being punished for hitting or missing, you're not being punished at all, you get to take three swings if you want, and if swinging is fun ( ladies) then you have fun doing so the reasons offered so far do not seem relevant to the changes proposed |
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jan 22, 2021 22:25:46 GMT -5
the more i read 'we should limit losings but not winnings' the more it sounds like people just want a system where they can generate unlimited currency without risk. this is not a system i am interested in implementing for something that has no bearing on sim league
|
|
bankz
New Member
GM of the Year: 3001
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 490
Joined: January 2021
|
Post by bankz on Jan 22, 2021 22:39:51 GMT -5
the more i read 'we should limit losings but not winnings' the more it sounds like people just want a system where they can generate unlimited currency without risk. this is not a system i am interested in implementing for something that has no bearing on sim league How is there no risk? This is gambling odds are never in the favor of the player |
|
