Post by skrouse on Apr 9, 2021 10:42:54 GMT -5
Welcome to skrouse's 2 cents: A Round Table!
Today I am joined by five GMs who are here to share their thoughts on TMBSL 6.0. I hope you enjoy!
1. Let’s start with a fun one, tell about where you feel your team is now and where it’s headed over the next five seasons. Do you feel you are currently a contender? A piece or two away? Or in some phase of a rebuild?
Pete: Heading into my second year at the helm in LA, I feel pretty good about where things stand. I came into a really good situation with a franchise cornerstone in Marc Gasol, and I have made a couple moves to try and build a competitive team in the short-term without locking in a core quite yet. I'm definitely in need of a top-tier running mate for Gasol, but hopefully I can keep adding assets to find a second star in a trade or luck into one in FA. As long as Gasol stays a Laker I feel good about the direction of the franchise.
Heebs: The fate of the Pacers is in the hands of TC. We drafted three teenage rookies, each of which could be a all star with the right TCs. Or they could all be doo doo with bad TCs. Bynum probably sticks around as a D/R big, but Green and Korolev don't have the basic build to be TMBSL players without some luck. I don't think we're contenders unless Bynum and Clyde take huge steps forward. We have above-average to very good starters across the board and great depth. We just need one or two dogs to hang with the 76ers and Bucks.
Yawn: My team is trash. I am contender for a real sleepy season and am several pieces away from actually being decent. I have hope that if Conley improves in JS and 3pt we could have a foundational piece. But if he doesn’t... Well shit. Landry is a fine scorer; otherwise this roster will need to hit on a max+draft well.
Bankz: Obviously I have one of the stronger rosters in the league. We are coming off back to back sim titles but things could drastically change and it’s out of my control. Free agency could turn this roster upside down. I have at time of this response 6 pending free agents with the two key members being Carr and Ellis. Hopefully the software is kind to me and they return.
Jayz: I think my team is clearly a contender. While not the best team in the East, it is in the top handful. This season the top handful has gotten smaller (jhb selling) and weaker (magnifico retiring), so hopefully the Nets can come out of the east this time. The lack of a truly elite talent holds my team back, and I’m not sure that’s a problem that can be solved this season.
skrouse: We are in full rebuild mode in Orlando. After dumping all of my key players a couple of seasons ago I have been patiently waiting for the draft picks we acquired to turn into players. Finally I have some players and think I may have at least one or two keepers. Mahinmi seems to have progressed nicely in his first TC, we’ll see how he looks after growing an inch and getting his +30 and a camp. I already had Ron Crevier who should serve as a nice 3rd big. It’s yet to be seen if Villanueva or Gortat are good enough to start long term. We have a 1.7 next year and then 1.1 the following draft, I have to get key pieces with those two picks. Then hold the whole thing together for my next 1.1 in 2010. Then my window should be open for a title or two. 2. I want to discuss the Wheel now. With 4 full seasons now in the books, including 4 Rookie Drafts, have your feelings toward the wheel become more positive, more negative or stayed the same? Why do you think you feel that way?
Pete: I think the wheel is exactly as advertised. It's made trades a lot more equitable, since the team trading a player for picks can more readily judge the value coming back to them. I also appreciate that we don't have to have so many tanking rules in place now and teams that aren't competing can still try to sign and flip players without jeopardizing their draft position. Overall I think the wheel has removed some of the dumb luck that made the lotto drafts so frustrating at times. Heebs: Significantly more positive. Love the wheel. I was very anti-wheel in 4.0. I came back to 6.0 thinking I'd dislike the wheel but would manage it. Now I really love it. I think it encourages a lot more trades and makes value for value exchanges more knowable. It's also been nice that the draft classes have been relatively balanced so far. With the exception of 3001, no class has been overwhelmingly different than another. So it makes having the wrong year in the wheel less of an issue. I imagine there will be exceptions, e.g. Lebron, but hopefully it continues. Yawn: I like the wheel. I felt the lottery system injected so much uncertainty into the process. The tanking and hoping for luck approach never really worked for me. I think the wheel also facilitates better team building. You know what picks you have and what their approximate value is, so you can make moves as necessary. Bankz: My feelings on the wheel haven't changed much. With four years into the books i'm still learning the different strategies some are using. I will say this system seems to be more friendly to top teams if you can plan out properly. I haven't been on the other end of being crappy and not having a lotto to look forward to. Once I get to that stage I may be able to properly gauge my feelings on the wheel. To this point I wouldn't remove it. I think its fine. Jayz: I still like weighted lottery more, I think tanking is fun and a cool way to build a team through the draft. I think the Wheel hurts parity. None of those feelings have changed in any way. The Wheel is fun as well though, and has some upsides versus weighted lottery (trading of definite future picks) so all in all it’s a wash for me between the two draft systems. skrouse: Now that I’m finally getting to see what the wheel is like in a full league I’m seeing some pros and cons, overall I think my view is more positive. The pros are definitely all the trades that are happening; the trade market is alive and well in my view. I also like that once I trade away a pick I pretty much forget about. I know exactly what I’m giving up when it happens. In a lottery I felt like if I didn’t have my pick in a particular year, I had to do all I could to make that pick have the least value as possible. Some of the cons are the longer stretches between top picks. I have my 1.1 coming up in 2010 and I trade for one in 2006, but if I hadn’t the best pick I would had in the first decade would have been a 1.4. But being able to trade for an exact pick slot somewhat makes up for that, which is why I still have a mostly positive view of wheel.3. Let’s move onto the Trade Market. We’re currently at trade #318 (as of 4/6 @ 1 PM EST), which means we’re averaging roughly 80 trades per season. Looking at those numbers, I think most would agree that we have a healthy Trade Market. Why do you think that is? Do you expect the market to remain this active, slow down a bit or even possibly become more active?
Pete: JHB had some stats recently that showed a ton of the trade activity was around upgrades, which are obviously a hot commodity. Skrouse and I traded future firsts for them, which has been getting killed, and may ultimately slow the market for those since it seems like there aren't many others willing to make that deal. Otherwise, I think as long as Dirt is in the league, the trade market will be active, and the teambuilding cycles usually lead to buyers and sellers every year who are ready to either take the next step or sell off what they currently have. I don't see that trend changing anytime soon. Heebs: In reverse order: the wheel, a full league, and dirt. But all kidding aside, I think full scouting has made drafting a lot more attractive. People are willing to pay for 1.15 in a draft knowing they can get a player that will be the next Joakim Noah. The ability to +30 a player's inside and get them to be a 20/10 big on .500+ fg% is neat. I wonder how long that will be attractive though. Eventually everyone is going to have a full complement of bigs and those picks won't be quite as useful. So I guess I expect it will slow down. Yawn: The trade market is an interesting one. These are certain league wide changes that I think have altered values. For example, contract sizes really mean less at the moment because you can amnesty folks. So having a ton of cap space with a buyout isn’t as valuable as in previous sim leagues.That said there are certain things I find interesting with the current trade environment. The upgrade point market is a bit wild at the moment. The drop in value for late 1st round picks and increase in value of 2nd round picks is also something I find interesting to watch. With current conditions I think we can continue at this pace. I don’t know if JHB will be able to though. We may have to hire him an assistant.
Bankz: Well is a fresh reboot to the league for a lot of former GMs. I personally took a 4-5 year break from sim and I think others also had some time off. A creation draft sprinkled on top and lots of different assets now being able to be traded only helps stimulate the trade economy. I do see a little roster lockage happening and maybe a small slow down to trades happening. As long as dirt is part of the league I can't see our trade pace falling off significantly. Jayz: Why? You mean who. Take away dirt and uppies and our trades per capita (trades per active gm) is probably very very close to 5.0. We had about half that number of trades in early 5.0, but had 4-5 less active gms, no dirt, and no uppies. That all being said though no complaints on the trade market, except possibly by eric, jhb, and skrouse who have to deal with all the musical chairs. skrouse: As we’re now at trade 338 I think this question answers itself, the trade market is alive and well. I think it’s a cumulative effect of a few different factors. #1 I think is the wheel. Knowing exactly what you’re getting in a pick means it doesn’t take a group of picks to move a good player, so individual picks have more value. #2 is most likely the fact that upgrades can be traded. JHB pointed out in shout that they account for like 25% of all trades. We haven’t even seen the market for extensions pick up yet but I think as the FA market get filled with rookie class players, we’ll see a tick up with those also. This all means it’s a fun time to be a TMBSL GM. 4. Speaking of trades, there have been some doozies lately. Big names on the move from teams that have been contenders since the Creation Draft, like the Hawks and Grizzlies. Looking back through all 300+ trades thus far, which one surprised you the most when you first laid eyes on it? Was there a big name that you thought couldn’t be moved? Or maybe a pick you thought for sure a GM would hold on to considering who would be in the draft class?
Pete: I'm probably most surprised that Ank chose to tear down the Bojan/Maye core so soon after putting that team together. The back-to-back #1 picks is a strong return, but I think the best case scenario with those picks is a 1-2 combination like Bojan and Maye, so I would've thought he'd keep tinkering with that squad. Heebs: Not really. There were some head scratching moves where it didn't seem like the trade was remotely two-sided, but no trades where I was surprised a player or pick was moved. All in all I think GMs have done a pretty good job of building and tearing down rosters. One player I'm surprised has NOT been moved is Estes. He's going nowhere on a mediocre Bobcats roster and is not getting any more valuable. Yawn: There aren’t many trades that have surprised me per se. Dirt is like the league's version of metamucil. He gets everyone regular with his constant offers. Or maybe he's a laxative. Regardless I haven't seen anyone being traded that shocked me. Bankz: I haven't been shocked by anyone being traded at this point. Nor any pick being move because largely I think the elite guys and elite picks are going for the value they should go for. I think Soup trading Moala would be shocking or maybe someone with a personal connection to a player like Ian has with CPR or I do with Carr and Ellis could result in a shocking deal. I guess Estes being moved will be shocking for two reasons, first because Odin never really seems to legit want to move him. It seems like he just wants to have talks vs move him. Secondly I think a lot of the appeal of Estes has worn off, younger guys have entered the league and some creation wings have developed better and he's not this amazing asset. I could see someone over paying for Estes. I will say that I think this off-season a few guys went for cheaper than I expected but that also goes hand in hand with my last answer when I mentioned some roster lockage and thus it being more of a buyers’ market and guys being acquired for cheaper. Jayz: I have to say the most surprising trade was 1.6 for Okoren. Or maybe it was 1.5 for Bol. Or maybe it was 1.8 for 1.14 and expiring DD. Or maybe 1.3 for Staten. Actually all of these trades have been discussed ad nauseum. I think JHB in particular sold off a little hard and a little fast, but I think druce timed his sell-off well and got good value in return. skrouse: The one that comes to minds is the Knicks – Bulls trade that sent Bojan to Chicago and 1.1 in ’08 to New York. I was very surprised to see that deal go down without hearing word of Bojan being shopped around. If I had a player of the caliber, I would be shopping him left and right before pulling the trigger – see Doug Wrenn. Overall think this was a nice move for Mike, made him relevant but based on the first year of the Bojan era in Chicago, Mike still needs some pieces. On the flip side, Ank seems to have gotten the most he could, 3 1sts included a 1.1, doesn’t get much better than that when moving a superstar. 5. Time for a hypothetical, if we did a team swap draft where you had to swap teams with one other GM (all assets, players, picks, etc.) what team would you chose with pick 1.1, why? Conversely, if you were stuck with the last swap pick, which team would you hope not to get stuck with?
Pete: As much fun as it would be to switch to a contender and rack up a title or two, I would probably pick the Heat. The 1993 draft class has some of my favorite players in it, so I would love the opportunity to get Webber or Penny plus another stud with the 3rd pick. Those with the scouting reports seemed to love the Ilyasova pick as well, so this team has the cap flexibility, youth and draft capital to build a contender quickly. Heebs: I'm probably take the Clippers with 1.1. They've got a stew going with Smith, Wrenn, and Matthews and some prime assets still to trade for another star and depth. I'd probably be most bummed to wind up with the 76ers. After they lose Ellis and Carr, they've got no picks and a couple of aging role players soaking up their cap space. Yawn: I really like the Bucks, Cougars, Chaps and 76ers in the present. As the 76ers come off those rookie contracts they become less attractive. Trofie has really nice depth, same with 20s. The west has a whole set of teams that I would be happy managing into the ground. But I’m gonna say the Bucks. He’s got Horford, Gates and Fazekas.In terms of teams I wouldn’t want, good question. I like the moves the Bulls have made to win now, but that butcher’s bill is going to be high this coming offseason. That’s gonna require some deft navigation. I don’t particularly like much on the Cavs, but I run the Bullets and we got less. So let’s go with me. I don’t want my team
Bankz: I wouldn't want to swap picks for picks with the Cavs. He's already had his 1.1 and he wasn't able to capitalize on it. It's not a reflection on Sap being a bad GM. The timing of the pick was bad given he's learning the league and had to catch up on a lot of things on top of learning how to roster build with 1.1. Just an extremely bad spot to be in. Add in Eric stupid ruling they he couldn't make his draft selection in 3001 Draft or make FA bids where he lost the best asset on his roster. So I'll pass on a swap of picks with the Cavs. As far as switching rosters with... I rather not lol but to play along I'll say Miami would be my 1.1 I legit feel like Duc has a chance to build a roster on par with my Sixers and in short time. I would 100% put him 1.1, some other honorable mentions would be the Knicks and Magic. Jayz: This is a really tough one. I feel like the answer here is clearly the bucks. The 76ers are also enviable but have a tougher time moving forward, I think. Other than that there aren’t a lot of team’s I’d rather have than my Nets. Possibly the Knicks just so I could coast for the next IRL year and collect eric busts. skrouse: A lot of good options here but I think Ank has positioned the Knicks quite well with the two 1.1 picks he was able to acquire for his big time players. He has a couple of young players he could flip for additional asset, and he’s flush with cap space. I think I would prefer to flip into that position knowing I basically have a blank slate and would be acquiring two top players almost immediately. There are other teams that have better players already, but I would enjoy building my own squad and those two 1.1s have me leaning toward the Big Apple. 6. There was a poll recently regarding Hidden Gems being revealed via Scouting, results were split 13 to 9 in favor of removing their revelations. Which side of the fence do you land? Why? Any suggestions for a different approach?
Pete: I was in favor of removing the revelations, but with the caveat that I think there should be a post-draft mechanism for a team to reveal if they have any hidden gems. I don't think it makes sense for hidden gems to be known before a player gets taken, and it's going to influence where guys go. But some kind of currency reward to check one or all of your draftees would still help ensure hidden gems are eventually found without skewing the results of the draft. Heebs: I voted no changes. I think if there are changes, we ought to make scouting hidden gem status a separate scout that costs 5k. That said, I'm still against full attribute reveals and would much rather have a grade system similar to creation with the ability to compare players to see who has the highest inside, etc. Yawn: I don’t think we should reveal hidden gems. I don’t particularly like full build scouting. Yes there is variance on growth and Eric does a fine job of making it so TC has a big impact, but full attribute and hidden gem reveals kinda take the fun out of the crapshoot that is the draft. It just makes the draft process kinda blah. It’s like looking up the wonderkid lists on FM when it’s released. :nobodycares: Bankz: I voted to keep things as is. Scouting is expensive at 15k a piece, I'm fine with knowing that piece of information because it plays a huge role in evaluation of players. And when i'm dropping 100K a year to make the best decision possible I think that information is critical. I believe we have had 4 draft classes and to this point I'm only aware of 20 Gems via the scouts. So it’s not like every player is being exposed via this process. Jayz: I voted to remove them. I think it would just be a little more fun and add to the mystery. At this point, everyone in the lottery has scouts. No profile player that is a hidden gem is actually hidden. All it does is make us have to take into consideration their gem status when we pick them. It adds no intrigue in any way, eric might as well just build those dudes with +10 inside. A small reform could fix this, whether that reform is getting rid of gems in scouting, or maybe just removing hidden gem status from profile players. If you removed the gem status from profile players and they were only on non-profile players, those players are then way less likely to be scouted and so I think finding a hidden gem during scouting of a non-profile player is more “fun” and would be an improvement to what we have now. skrouse: I voted to remove it and I stand by that. I think we need to make a change to the HG reveal system to have it more closely resemble its initial implementation. The original idea was that this was a HIDDEN bonus that required a GM to invest in the player to reveal. The main driver in my view for this change is that scouting information is often shared by cliques of GMs so a GM that may not have paid for a scout could benefit in knowing that a particular player has hidden value. I just don’t like that, doesn’t feel right. I do feel that we should make additional changes so that any investment in a player of 5 or more points, which would include mentoring and camps, would reveal the status. I think that alone would lead to the uncovering of additional gems. 7. The next five Rookie drafts in order will be 1990, 2014, 2011, 2008, and 1993 – they will include some 4.0 and 5.0 greats such as Gary Payton, Joel Embiid, Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Chris Webber, and many more – In which class do you wish you had the 1.1? Which class do you think will be the strongest from top to bottom? Will any come close to the talent level seen in inaugural 6.0 Rookie class?
Pete: Personally I would want 1.1 in the C-Webb draft, so I could re-unite with one of my franchise cornerstones from 4.0. However, I think the smart bet for best of that bunch is Kyrie, who was the first sim league great built by Eric in 4.0 and I think was also a HOFer in 5.0. His skillset translates really well to sim and I think he'll be a beast once more. 2011 should be a really strong class overall, there are several all-NBA caliber players to come out of that draft with a couple top-tier guys and a lot of depth. I don't know enough about what the original rookie class looked like to compare against but I would bet it's enough to rival that class. Heebs: Chris Webber's profile looks ridiculous, so I guess 3005. I also wouldn't mind 1.1 in the Anthony Davis draft, which I think is 3008. Davis's game translates well to 6.0 builds. He could be the heir apparent to Bojan, but also block shots. Yawn: Any draft that includes Russell Westbrook as one of the bright spots probably isn’t going to fare well… Of recent years you have to like 2011 with Kyrie, Kawhi and Jimmy Butler alone possibly swinging the power of the league to the wings. Jokic done right would save us from a 2014 Andrew Wiggins apocalypse… Bankz: Rose is probably my favorite NBA player since MJ. Given how he's never been great in any sim league i've been a part of and apparently any sim period it probably takes the wind out of my sails. Still I love that dude and I would gladly take the 1.1 in his draft class. If were talking unannounced classes I would like 1.1 in the MJ draft... duh. I also would love 1.1 in the Barkley draft because i'm the Sixers GM and he's one of the few NBA players i've met irl. I think next year’s draft class could be pretty special. The profiles seem really promising. On paper it may be the most talented irl class top to bottom to enter tmbsl. Can it be better than 3001 class? Nobody really will know till scouts are paid for. Jayz: Embiid class looks nice. Rose class could be good. The other classes are a bit lackluster imo. I think the Payton class could be sneaky good -- while the NBA winshares of the players is fairly meh, the college projections on the top picks were good. If JHB focuses on what people THOUGHT those guys were gonna do going into the NBA, instead of what they actually did, then it should be a fairly solid class as well. skrouse: I have high hopes for the 1990 NBA class which will hit TMBSL next year in 3005. This class should be loaded with talent across all positions. Penny, Cassell, and NVE at the PG; Cheaney, Houston, JR Rider, Byron Russel, and Mashburn at the wings; Webber, Muresan, Baker, and Bradley in the paint. I expect several All Stars in this class and it’s like it could end up with 3 to 5 HOFers by the time all is said and done. I am excited to have a top 10 pick in this class for sure. 8. And lastly, what has been your favorite part of 6.0 thus far? Answer this any way you like, can be something about your team, about a fellow GM, the league as a whole, etc.
Pete: I'm really enjoying being back in the league, I think the current set-up has fixed a lot of the issues I remember from 4.0. The #wheel helps prevent GMs tearing down and having little to show for it, and it's added some new wrinkles to teambuilding. The attribute distribution has made offensive bigs legitimate building blocks and we're seeing several different teambuilding approaches as a result. And I'm back to wasting half of my days at work in shout rather than what I'm supposed to be doing, so I feel like I'm truly back where I left off. Heebs: Having a full league most of all. It is active and fun to be part of. I think Eric has hit his stride commishing and the new GMs have gotten a better handle on how the league runs. I'm looking forward to many more years (hopefully not sim years) of a full and active league. Yawn: Surprisingly, the league. I think Eric has set up something really good here. I’m invested in my team and trying to improve my players. Shout is actually pretty awful at times Bankz: I love being able to chill in discord or shout with Dirt and Soup talk life and sim league. I love the competitiveness of the league I love the trade talks and listening to the pods and reading the articles. I enjoy the Chap/BK duo, BK can be a lightning rod of stupidity but he's good for the league. Shout is fun, the fights, the insights and the general discussion is cool. I'm happy to be back and part of 6.0 Jayz: When delap unblocked me skrouse: I have thoroughly enjoyed the overall activity in the league. There is never a shortage of shout chatter, trade partners, league controversy, or interesting articles to digest. It’s nice to see a full league under eric’s commissioner reign. In 5.0 we were able to see a lot of creative and fun changes but they were never on display in a full league, to see them in their full potential. I’m very happy to see that now in 6.0. 
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