Rookie Ladder - 3004 (831 views)

[delap]

Pre-Season - Initial Standings

1st is easy... after that there are 4 players that I see as very very close to each other.  Then another tier of 6-7 players after that (with a couple just missing the cut). I can't see anyone over-taking CP3 right now, but stranger things have happened.  I also have no idea what to do with the slew of good efficiency, zero scoring SGs in this class.  You won't see them on the ladder, though.  Maybe a couple in the HMs... but more game data is needed.

1. Chris Paul - Minnesota Timberwolves

Looks like a surefire All-Star right now.  %s are great, P/TSA is great, 1st in Steals, incredibly low TOs.  No real weaknesses.

2. Andrew Bynum - Indiana Pacers

1st in rebounding, good enough scoring, great defensive stats... and still 18.  TOs are very very low, which lands him at #2 right now.

3. Brandon Bass - Philadelphia 76ers

Another solid big piece in Philly, Bass is in the upper tier of scorers and rebounders in the class, all while not turning it over.  His defensive measures need to improve, but other than that, he's already solid.

4. Deron Williams - Miami Heat

Not a bust! Not an all-star either! But Williams looks pretty solid as a rookie PG off the jump.  Looks like a worse CP3 in basically everything (art imitates life)... but his TO rate is actually a wee bit lower, so that's not bad.  Given the lack of PGs in the league right now, he's a strong plus.

5. Martell Webster - Pittsburgh Pipers

Solid scorer already, Webster's efficiency needs to creep up, especially from 3, for him to be explosive.  More than 9 boards/36 from a skinny wing is a good sign, too.  Like the guys above him, he's careful with the rock.

6. Salim Stoudamire - Washington Bullets

Looks to be a solid wing scorer, but doesn't bring a whole lot else.  His rebounding actually could be worse, so that's not a major negative.  If his steals or volume tick up he'll be just fine.

7. Andrew Bogut - Phoenix Suns

Turnovers are on the scarier side, but not unplayable.  1st in scoring, 2nd in rebounding are both great.  Efficiency is so-so.  His total lack of shot-blocking is the biggest issue for now, though.  He either needs to block a little or get the TOs down to have any chance of moving up the ladder.

8a. David Lee - Chicago Stags

8b. Marcin Gortat - Orlando Magic

Nearly identical efficiency.  Lee is a more voluminous scorer and takes care of the ball a little better, whereas Marcin is a better rebounder and (slightly) better defender. Not that it really matters, Lee has a very high assist-rate for a big.

10. Randolph Morris - Vancouver Grizzlies

More of a D big than a D/R big, Morris takes the top spot in blocking among rookies.  He also seems to have scoring desires... but just isn't efficient (despite OK FT%).  He could easily jump up the rankings with increased P/TSA.

Honorable Mentions:

Points:

Travis Diener - Orlando Magic

Wings:

Luther Head - Los Angeles Lakers

Marvin Williams - Phoenix Suns

Danny Granger - Texas Chaparrals

Matt Walsh - Milwaukee Bucks

Bigs:

Ike Diogu - Seattle SuperSonics

Robert Whaley - Texas Chaparrals

Charlie Villanueva - Orlando Magic

Martynas Andriuskevicius - Chicago Bulls

Ronny Turiaf - Golden State Warriors

Jason Maxiell - Cleveland Cavaliers

Hakim Warrick - Toronto Raptors

Wayne Simien - Vancouver Grizzlies

Johan Petro - New York Knicks

Chuck Hayes - Toronto Raptors

Fran Vasquez - Milwaukee Bucks

[gbgalla24]

Andray Blatche not even on the honorable mentions????

[gbgalla24]

I guess after preseason that's alright, but he better be jumping onto that big board soon

[delap]

Day 40 Update
After not a lot of faith in the depth of this class, after 40 days there are some real players out there and it's hard to cut to 10. Lots of very similar bigs, especially... so sorry to Fran Vazquez, Ike Diogu, Ian Mahinmi, Johan Petro, and Andrew Bogut for being left out this time. #1 is still easy... the rest is more of a morass.

1. Chris Paul - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 1)
He's good at everything, even individual defense, which I'm sure makes eric cringe. I'm gonna go ahead and say that if he shoots over 50% from 3 for his career, he'll be a HOFer.



2. Martell Webster - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 5)
Efficiency has bloomed post-PS (and upgrades). A fantastic scorer, but I want to see his rebound totals if he were playing SG instead of SF. They are great, but not elite, right now.



3. Ronnie Turiaf - Golden State Warriors (previous: HM)
Leading shot blocker among rookies, with great rebounding and solid scoring/efficiency to boot.



4. Uros Slokar - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: NR)
I thought we left all the Argonians in 5.0. For real, who is this guy? His Wikipedia picture is blurry. I'm not sure he's real. But, his production is very real. 3rd in efficiency, 4th in rebounding, more than 26 pts/36, 3rd highest blocks and bleals in the class. Best Slovenian sim player ever (thanks to whoever ruined 5.0 Luka).



5. Andray Blatche - Sacramento Kings (previous: NR)
A middle class man's Uros Slokar, Blatche is a defensive maven who looks to have some offensive upside. He's taking care of the ball while scoring over 20pp36, which is good enough for someone whose main talent in on defense. Boards are very good, but not quite elite.



6. Danny Granger - Texas Chaparrals (previous: HM)
Positional scarcity lands Granger here ahead of the next 10 players on my list (all of whom are bigs). He's putting in very efficient scoring, at OK volume, with solid rebounding and steals and low TOs for a good team. He looks like he would be a fantastic 2-guard... but that darn last inch of height really limits him.



7. Andrew Bynum - Indiana Pacers (previous: 2)
Efficiency has cratered in the regular season (vis a vis the preseason), but everything else is still elite. Leads all rookies in rebounding, 2nd in blocks, 1st in bleals. Very very low TOs. High upside still.



8a. David Lee - Chicago Stags (previous: 8a)
8b. Brandon Bass - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: 3)
A pair of no-defense bigs... Lee is a phenomenal scorer (1st among rookies in raw scoring), but he really doesn't add much of anything else. His rebounding is woefully low. However, he doesn't turn it over at a bad rate. Bass rebounds incredibly well, but doesn't add anything defensively. His scoring rate might be suppressed by his more talented teammates, but we will learn more about that on the sophomore staircase next season after Carr/Ellis both flee in FA.




10. Ersan Ilyasova - Miami Heat (previous: NR)
Really not sure what to do with Ersan. His raw scoring and rebounding are both solid, but nothing exceptional. His defense is good, not great. His TOs are really low. But! He currently leads all rookies (and the league!) in P/TSA with an insane 1.34. It's too good to leave him off the ladder, but he'll be quick to drop back off if it slips, given the glut of bigs right behind him in the HM section.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Marcelo Huertas - Dallas Mavericks
Roko Ukic - Philadelphia 76ers
Deron Williams - Miami Heat

Wings:
Mickael Gelabale - Los Angeles Clippers
Matt Walsh - Milwaukee Bucks
Salim Stoudamire - Washington Bullets
Luther Head - Los Angeles Lakers

Bigs:
Sean May - Vancouver Grizzlies
Fran Vazquez - Milwaukee Bucks
Ike Diogu - Seattle SuperSonics
Jason Maxiell - Cleveland Cavaliers
Robert Whaley - Texas Chaparrals
Andrew Bogut - Phoenix Suns
Charlie Villanueva - Orlando Magic
Chuck Hayes - Toronto Raptors
Martynas Andriuskevicius - Chicago Bulls
Randolph Morris - Vancouver Grizzlies
Marcin Gortat - Orlando Magic
Johan Petro - New York Knicks
Ian Mahinmi - Orlando Magic

[Handsome Pete]

Slokar approve!

[bankz]

Ewww... good thing these rankings are fluid.

[Dirt]

Can you really trust an evaluator that doesn't play Thaddeus Young?

[eric]

Apr 13, 2021 6:52:26 GMT -5 delap said:

For real, who is this guy? His Wikipedia picture is blurry.

camera of capitalist pigdog too puny for capture SLOKAR

[delap]

Apr 13, 2021 20:07:38 GMT -5 eric said:

Apr 13, 2021 6:52:26 GMT -5 delap said:

For real, who is this guy? His Wikipedia picture is blurry.

camera of capitalist pigdog too puny for capture SLOKAR

He's no Neetnum Nagdorus

[troybarnes]

Apr 13, 2021 6:52:26 GMT -5 delap said:

8a. David Lee - Chicago Stags (previous: 8a)

Obviously haven't been super active in the article scene lately, but I would like to point out that Lee is 2nd in raw scoring and PER among rookies and he's got a 2.7:1 A:TO ratio. Maybe your day 80 rankings would've reflected this anyway, but something to consider before you release the newest update.

[delap]

Day 80 Update
Packed ladder, packed class.

1. Chris Paul - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 1)
#2 in P/TSA, 3rd in scoring, incredible A:TO. Easy #1 on what is a pretty packed ladder at this point.



2. Martell Webster - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 2)
3rd in P/TSA, 2nd in scoring, very very good rebounding numbers from the wing. TOs aren't an issue at all, either. Couple that with elite potential and Webster looks like a future All-Pro.



3. Uros Slokar - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 3)
1st in P/TSA, despite crappy FT shooting, Slokar doesn't look to have any non-FT holes in his game. 1st among rookies in blocks and stocks, he's the real deal. Unfortunately, with lower potential and maxed out upgrades, he has a hard cap on his development.



4a. Andray Blatche - Sacramento Kings (previous: 5)
4b. Ronny Turiaf - Golden State Warriors (previous: 3)
Very similar bigs in NorCal (or NorCentralCal, if you are a bit more pedantic). Blatche is a tiny bit more efficient and more careful with the ball, Turiaf is a slightly better blocker/stealer, but otherwise they seem very similar. Blatche gets the nod due to his higher potential and the fact that Turiaf is already maxed out on upgrades.




6. Andrew Bynum - Indiana Pacers (previous: 7)
Still young, high potential, and upgrades remaining... but already a player. Aside from weaker (but not atrocious) efficiency, Bynum looks great. 1st in rebounding, 3rd in blocks, 2nd in stocks... Bynum is a player.



7. Danny Granger - Texas Chaparrals (previous: 6)
4th in P/TSA, decent rebounding, careful with the ball... but his defensive efforts are a little weak and his scoring capacity leaves a little to be desired.



8. David Lee - Chicago Stags (previous: 8a)
On the flipside from Granger, volume is not a worry for Lee in Chicago. He's very efficient and leads all rookies in raw scoring. However, his rebounding is very disappointing and his defense is even worse. He'll be dependent on a pure D/R center next to him in the future to make a team competitive.



9. Ian Mahinmi - Orlando Magic (previous: HM)
#6 in scoring, #5 in rebounding, and solid (not great) defensive numbers land Mahinmi on the ladder. Not hyper efficient, but not unplayable. Still has room to grow with high potential.



10. Luther Head - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: HM)
Honestly, I couldn't decide between Bogut or Bass for the last spot... so I went with neither. Head is a newly minted starter and scoring option in La La Land, and is seizing his chance by the horns. 6th in P/TSA, putting up over 20 per 36, and not turning it over, he looks like a solid SG. His rebounding isn't good, but not fatally bad, but we would like to see a bit more defense going forward. Sample is smaller than others, but he's firmly in the mix for the final ladder in 40 days.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Roko Ukic - Philadelphia 76ers
Marcelo Huertas - Dallas Mavericks
Deron Williams - Miami Heat

Wings:
Mickael Gelabele - Los Angeles Clippers
Francisco Garcia - Golden State Warriors
Salim Stoudamire - Washington Bullets
Matt Walsh - Milwaukee Bucks

Bigs:
Andrew Bogut - Phoenix Suns
Brandon Bass - Philadelphia 76ers
Ike Diogu - Seattle SuperSonics
Ersan Ilyasova - Miami Heat
Charlie Villanueva - Orlando Magic
Fran Vazquez - Milwaukee Bucks
Johan Petro - Philadelphia 76ers

[bankz]

Lots of inflated numbers thanks to being on bad teams makes doing this difficult.


Definitely not the top 10 I would have at this point

[skrouse]

Would still prefer Gortat over some of the HMs but i like the rest of the list

[duc15]

No love for Deron

[delap]

Apr 17, 2021 9:49:42 GMT -5 duc15 said:

No love for Deron

below average efficiency and basically no defense.  HM is fitting.

[20s]

Apr 17, 2021 10:19:29 GMT -5 delap said:

Apr 17, 2021 9:49:42 GMT -5 duc15 said:

No love for Deron

below average efficiency and basically no defense.  HM is fitting.

Looks like he’s 11 of 79 PGs who have played this season in blocks/36. 

[bankz]

Apr 17, 2021 10:39:05 GMT -5 20s said:

Apr 17, 2021 10:19:29 GMT -5 delap said:

below average efficiency and basically no defense.  HM is fitting.

Looks like he’s 11 of 79 PGs who have played this season in blocks/36. 

Who are the top 10? 

[Handsome Pete]

[delap]

Apr 17, 2021 10:39:05 GMT -5 20s said:

Apr 17, 2021 10:19:29 GMT -5 delap said:

below average efficiency and basically no defense.  HM is fitting.

Looks like he’s 11 of 79 PGs who have played this season in blocks/36. 

even with that he turns it over more than he causes TOs... and that's with a low TO rate!

less than 1 steal/36 is no bueno

and again, he's honorable and worthy of mention... but I don't think I'm slighting him by leaving him off the ladder proper.

[troybarnes]

I really don't understand your logic on having Turiaf/Blatche at 4 and Lee at 8. They average about 1.5 bleals more per game than Lee, admittedly, but they both also average about 10 less points and about 3 less assists per game. Raw rebounding is about the same. Per 36 numbers favor Turiaf and Blatche, but that doesn't really matter if you can't get them to play more than 30 min. Even if you go by the per 36, the gap isn't as near as wide in rebounding or defensive stats as it is between the other 2 and Lee on scoring. I just have a hard time believing a guy who is #10 overall in the league in both points per 36 and PER is the 8th best player in his own draft class

/homerrant

[delap]

Final Update - End of Regular Season

IanBoyd didn't get my 10k... but he can have 1k, as a treat/prize for winning the ladder. skrouse, please pay the man.

Easiest #1 so far. Good job, good effort.

1. Chris Paul - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 1)
No holes in his game, the (probably) deserved league MVP. If you are searching for a flaw, he isn't a great rebounder of the ball... but that's really picking nits. He's exemplary.



2. Martell Webster - Pittsburgh Pipers (previous: 2)
No change here, as I'm still very high on Webster. Best scorer in the class, strong rebounder, and low on TOs. His defense isn't great, but maybe natural growth will help his steal numbers.



3. Uros Slokar - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 3)
I'll continue to bet on Uros. One of the best three defensive bigs in the class (along with Bynum and Turiaf) and a scoring machine inside. FT% is troublesome, but the rest of the package is very nice.



4. Ronny Turiaf - Golden State Warriors (previous: 4a)
Top-notch rebounder and defender, along with decent efficiency and volume. Lots to like here.



5. Andray Blatche - Sacramento Kings (previous: 4b)
Narrowly behind the best of the best defenders... and merely average on the boards, Blatche falls just below Turiaf and SLOKAR in the final ladder (it's incredibly close between these 3).



6. Andrew Bynum - Indiana Pacers (previous: 6)
Best rebounder in the class, great defender, super young with high potential, and he doesn't turn it over at all. He is the guy I have pegged as the biggest potential riser in the Staircase next season. His P/TSA isn't gross... but it is below average and needs to come up a bit.



7. David Lee - Chicago Stags (previous: 8)
Volume has ticked down a bit since the last update, and he still is bad rebounder for a big and bad defender... but he's efficient and he scores, which are valuable skills.



8. Luther Head - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 10)
I made a leap to put him at 10 last update... and he's lived up to my expectations. He's increased his scoring while maintaining elite efficiency and very low TOs. #1 in the class (just barely ahead of CP3) in P/TSA.



9. Danny Granger - Texas Chaparrals (previous: 7)
Granger has a fantastic P/TSA and is solid across the board... but doesn't seem to have an elite skill to hang his hat on.



10. Brandon Bass - Philadelphia 76ers (previous: HM)
Narrowly ahead of Mahinmi and Bogut for the last spot. He has similar defensive concerns as David Lee, but none of the rebounding ones... however, he isn't as electric as a scorer. Great piece on a contender.



Honorable Mentions:

Points:
Deron Williams - Miami Heat
Roko Ukic - Philadelphia 76ers

Wings:
Mickael Gelabele - Chicago Stags
Julius Hodge - Orlando Magic
Francisco Garcia - Golden State Warriors

Bigs:
Ike Diogu - Seattle SuperSonics
Ersan Ilyasova - Miami Heat
Andrew Bogut - Phoenix Suns
Marcin Gortat - Orlando Magic
Ian Mahinmi - Orlando Magic
Fran Vazquez - Milwaukee Bucks
Randolph Morris - Vancouver Grizzlies
Johan Petro - Philadelphia 76ers

[IanBoyd]

91k

9k deduction from you obviously paying Sergei to take a dive at the end of the season.

[Handsome Pete]

Apr 21, 2021 9:44:40 GMT -5 delap said:

#1 in the class (just barely ahead of CP3) in P/TSA

Suck it, Ian

[Handsome Pete]

80k

[TinyTimPig]

90k

[20s]

69k

[skrouse]

70K

[bankz]

I would argue that Bass had to share the ball with Kemp, Smith, Carr and Ellis.

Lee was on a shit sandwich of a roster

[troybarnes]

Apr 21, 2021 10:36:45 GMT -5 bankz said:

I would argue that Bass had to share the ball with Kemp, Smith, Carr and Ellis.

Lee was on a shit sandwich of a roster

Hey man, we were decidedly average this year I'll have you know.

[bankz]

Apr 22, 2021 4:36:16 GMT -5 troybarnes said:

Apr 21, 2021 10:36:45 GMT -5 bankz said:

I would argue that Bass had to share the ball with Kemp, Smith, Carr and Ellis.

Lee was on a shit sandwich of a roster

Hey man, we were decidedly average this year I'll have you know.

True, my bad