Post by Majic on Jul 29, 2022 10:33:34 GMT -5
A little nostalgia to start your Friday..
1) Favorite 4.0 or 5.0 player that never turned into a good player in 6.0?
Tim - I wasn't in 4.0 all that long, but I won the title my first year. Lonzo was the obvious best player on that team, but almost as soon as I joined I swapped a first round pick and a couple of guys with good potential for Monta Ellis (with Fecta's help). I got a lot of shit for that one and it immediately became clear what the league was going to be like. Once I won the title, I felt like that trade was justified as Bruns hadn't won a title with that squad (or maybe any squad?). Anyway, Ellis has sucked for the most part in both 5.0 and 6.0 and while I didn't care for him in real life, I'd have a soft spot for him in sim.
Delap - Marcus Taylor or Alfredrick Hughes. Hughes was the best player (I think?) I ever had in 4.0, when I never got close to being a competitive team. He was a scoring machine (40ppg ish) and a TO machine (3.5/game or more)… but man was he fun. He was trash-ish in 5.0 and then trash again (12.8 career win shares) in 6.0. He only got that many because he played for me and I was loyal to his antecedent… he was a SG who just never managed to shoot well. Marcus Taylor was an MVP PG for me in 5.0 only because Druce pumped him all full of potential and was in a happy mood where he let us ask the commish questions as a birthday present. He basically divulged that 3 certain PGs in the draft might be hidden boom players, and I went with Taylor and got it right. He went +5 in a TC in his late 20s. He was great. In 6.0… not so much.
Majic - Amare Stoudemire would be my choice. Amare was an absolute stud on my first 5.0 title team and a force down low. In my title year he averaged 28ppg, 13.5rpg while shooting 52%, 91% and 41%, just a monster on the offensive end of the floor. I had high expectations for him coming into 6.0 but he never showed any growth. He never really got a lot of play time and soon after his rookie deal he just toiled away. I would love to have seen the 5.0 version on any of my teams in 6.0, he would have been a force.
BK - Tim Thomas, he was an all-time great in 4.0 but never could put it together after eric became commissioner. I wonder why
Heebs - I don't have a good answer for this question so I'm not going to provide a bullshit answer. If Georges Niang had been in 6.0, he'd almost certainly be the answer because he won't be nearly as good. Also Billy Donovan. He was a beast in 4.0.
Dirt - Umm i can't remember that far back. I will just say it sucks Penny and MJ just turned into MLE type players. I tried my damnest to get MJ to be a starting caliber 2 guard but honestly his TCs were just trashy as hell...MJ is the goat not LBJ when it comes to IRL NBA. And I said that shit.
2) What change from 4.0 or 5.0 to 6.0 do you like the best?
Tim - The removal of skill camps and reward camps in favor of more customizable upgrades. The addition of scouting - I knew I'd love rookie scouting but I've appreciated on-roster scouting a lot more than I thought I would too. And, of course, the wheel.
Delap - The regularity of the schedule… or the cruel, unrelenting death march of the schedule… is great. I appreciate consistency more than almost anything else in life (there’s a reason I live in the same place I was born). It took us a while and a near sim-league-death experience post-Odin’s reign… but we got it going well. I think we’ve gotten to a pretty solid balance in the position groups as well, though the vagaries of the draft, etc. may be swinging away from bigs at the moment (save us Bill Walton and David Robinson!). We’re veering back (imo) to the 4.0 meta of PGs matter more than anything and outside-offense rules… which is far different than the early 6.0 big domination… but again, it could just be the players we have right now, and that’s fine.
Majic - Overall I thinkt he player balancing has been the best we have seen. 4.0 playing style resulted in every team looking the exact same and there was not differentiation in team building. 5.0 offset that pretty nicely but I think it skewed a little too much to an inside offense being the meta for the majority. 6.0 has resulted in a number of different team building techniques and both inside and outside offenses have been able to succeed. I think thats a huge win overall for GMs to build how they see fit.
BK - Scouting is cool and adds to the fun of the draft, imo. On roster scouting is a bit less interesting to me and kind of dumb.
Heebs - The wheel. It's the single best thing about 6.0. I also really like the fact that shown potential reflects actual potential, but I would really like if there was more variability within the potentials (e.g., C non-profile players have 42 + d12 actual potential).
Dirt - I think when you're using the wheel it's extremely important to be able to scout. I really enjoy Eric sharing the full build with scouting. It's good to know that you can search for what you like when you're at the top of the draft. It also keeps him honest knowing what he's building from year to year.
3) What change from 4.0/5.0 to 6.0 do you like the worst?
Tim - "The wheel." - Majic, almost certainly
While I do see it as somewhat of a necessity now, I'm not as big on all of the free currency handed out through different means. Some I feel are justified (DC rewards), but it's possible to get by now without contributing much content to the league (Ward did this for all of 5.0 and was a contender for the entire iteration). If you want to have unlimited scouting and the ability to buy upgrades from other GMs or add currency to trades, sure, you'll need to participate in the occasional RT, but I don't believe those things are absolutely necessary to be competitive.
Delap - I like disclosure of stats/attributes… but sometimes I feel like we have run it into the ground and there just isn’t the variation I want to see in teams. This isn’t a 4.0 – 6.0 thing as much as a “we should experiment with a newer iteration of the software thing”… but whatever. I do miss the crazy hidden potential of some 2nd round types from previous draft masters… that might be the worst thing I say about eric’s regime.
Majic - Tim is correct in that I dislike the wheel the most, but I am going to pivot a bit and discuss something else. Overall I think the biggest change that I dislike is the way prospects are built. I get it from eric’s perspective, it makes it easier for him to build the draft classes and makes things alot more efficient. I do think it makes things a bit stale when drafting and leaves alot up to TC to determine how good a player will be. I remember previous Commissioners discussing how they liked to create a true hidden gem that when discovered would be a nice find. Its possible with scouting so prevalent this wouldnt really be possible but I think varying the way players are built would make the draft a bit more exciting.
BK - Losing create-a-player, I really want to pay money and create players, why do we not do that anymore?
Heebs - I don't like the resigning contract adjustments. But that's pretty nit picky. Really it's just the change I like the least. It's probably overall a positive.
Dirt - Obviously it's the wheel. I think the lotto is where it's at it. You're not handicapped if you get a Chris mihm like draft. You can always just turn around and tank again for a better player. It will also allow the top teams to not be as competitive in trade talks for elite players. There is no way in the world I could have traded for Dwight Howard if we ran lotto. The Mavs draft picks would be worthless.
4) What lesson did you learn from 4.0 or 5.0 that have helped you in your time as a GM in 6.0?
Tim - I was only in 4.0 for something like seven or eight seasons and the last four of those were pretty dead, so it was almost entirely a time to get my feet wet. I learned a lot about other GMs (Ankly is scumbag, Heebs will only trade 1.4s for 1.1s, etc.) and then a lot about mechanics (e.g. the value of shot blocking), but the changes we made to player caps in 5.0 completely altered how teams could be constructed moving forward.
Delap - I think we’ve learned that stars matter. This mirrors real life… but if you don’t have star power, you aren’t competing. A deep/evenly talented team is nice, but the stars are the ones that will propel you to a title. We’ve really only had a couple of teams win a title without a HOFer so far and those were all early teams (like the ’01 Grizz or the ’07 Suns). You gotta have a star… so build for that moment.
Majic - We had wheel for a good majority of 5.0 but I don't recall anyone really working to cluster their picks around their wheel allotment. I think a huge opportunity that alot of 6.0 GMs have used is the strategy of grouping high picks around each other. I have done it a couple times now and I know when other GMs have gone through rebuilds or re-tools they have looked to do the same. I think it provides some excitement to build up to a cluster of high draft picks, it gives you more chances to hit.
BK - ank =
Heebs - Shown defense is the only thing that matters.
But seriously, I feel like I'm constantly evolving and trying new things. Very unsuccessfully apparently.
Dirt - I've always believed the Ank 20s way with defensive bigs and scoring wings to get to the finals. I think it's just too difficult to find now days so i decided to try and become the best offense every year instead. So far it's been doing well for me. I will say cheating with the software has been a big help in my accomplishments
5) If you were to bring 1 player from your 4.0 or 5.0 team and drop them onto your current team, who would it be and why?
Tim - Lonzo Ball because he was ridiculously good. I can't remember how to access old 4.0 roster pages, but I'm pretty sure he averaged something like 30 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and a block per game on very good pts/tsa. He'd make 6.0 Kyrie look like a G-Leaguer.
Delap - 5.0 Kyrie is the easy answer, but I’ll skip that. I’ll instead look at George Gervin (http://simleague.site/TMBSL5/2050/players/player390.htm) and point to the fact that he could absolutely destroy in an outside-league right now and probably be the 2nd-best wing in the league right now.
Majic - 4.0 peak Gilbert Arenas was an absolute monster. He was elite in every phase of the game and provides amazing scoring while also locking down on defense. If I could drop him into my current team it would immediately push me to a higher level.
BK - Majestic Mapp, what an awesome point guard that I would absolutely love to have right now. Honorary shoutout to Patrick Ewing and Estaban Weaver.
Heebs - Georges Niang. My wings suck. Also I had some wing in 4.0 that blocked a TON of shots. Basically a 4.0 Thybulle. I guess I'd like him, too.
Dirt - You can just give me Magic Johnson and i'll throw him at wing and be good to go. He was a great player that i didn't get to keep long enough in my sim career. I wish i could remember more of 4.0 but i guess I've smoked too much pot and drank too much alcohol to have a better answer here.
6) Of these commissioners, rank them in how much you liked how they ran the league: Odin, Soup, 20's, Druce, Heebs, Eric.
Tim -
1. Eric
2. 20s
3. Druce
4. Heebs
5. Odin
I can't rank Soup as I wasn't around for his tenure, but Eric has easily been the best with consistency, transparency, and keeping the league running along smoothly.
20s was the first commish I had so I'll have a soft spot for him and, as I recall, he answered a few PMs early on that helped a ton. For my first few seasons, he was very consistent as well.
I appreciated Druce's brief term as he kept things going when no one wanted to and would bring his wife's laptop with him to various places to make sure sims could happen, even if they weren't at the same time every day.
Heebs' tenure is one I barely remember. 4.0 was nearly dead when he took over and I don't think he had an issue providing the killing blow. He didn't seem to enjoy commishing much so I don't think he'd be offended by the low grade.
Odin's terms were way too inconsistent for me. It led to a pretty significant collapse in 5.0, days (weeks?) without sims without any explanation, player build edits without explanation, and so on. His start to 5.0 was very positive as he made a lot of helpful changes we're still using.
Delap -
1. eric
2. 20s
3. druce
(big gap)
4. odin
5. soup
n/a: I don’t think I was ever around when Heebs was the commish, was I? Was he the commish before Soup? I’m not ranking him.
Majic -
1) Eric - easily the best and most consistent commish we have had. There are things I would like him to improve with but I wouldn't trade him for anyone else.
2) 20’s - he was the primary commish for me as I learned the software in 4.0. I thought he provided some really good leadership and kept things stable
3) Odin - overall odin was a bit erratic and inconsistent but he also was willing to try new things. I liked that about him and appreciate his work to get 5.0 off the ground
4) Druce - very short and created some super draft classes, her was there when we needed him
5) Heebs - very short run at the end of 5.0, he kept things going for us at the very end and that was appreciated
6) Soup - didn't get a ton of time with him as a commish but he was a bit difficult to deal with at times.
BK -
Eric - best overall commissioner, I'm a communist who values timeliness and efficiency over human emotion
20s - would actually be above eric for commissioner without him taking like 5 months to admit he'd basically quit and actually do it, in that time the league died
(Not having had soup as commissioner I'd guess he would end up slotting in right here) - would join a soup commished league 100% i bet he's great
Odin - A good commissioner with fun quirks, but also who knows when you'll get a sim and who knows if odin will disappear and also delete the league file for lulz
Druce - made fecta win 5/6 rings by making stupidly OP classes relative to the players in the league, this is what coined the now-famous saying 'druced it up'
Heebs - did what druce did but so poorly the league actually died
Heebs - Eric, 20s, Odin, Soup. I don't remember Druce - I think I was checked out at that point.
Dirt - I didn't play with 20s Druce or Heebs as commissioner. I feel like they would have been just as fine and probably better than Odin. I think Odin played around alot and was a little more inconsistent than Eric. I could be wrong but I thought Druce didn't have hidden pot the same as legit pot for the draft prospects. That would have sucked. I will say Eric is my favorite commision because he doesn't favor GMs. There is a deadline and thats that.
7) Favorite 4.0 or 5.0 memory? Why is it so memorable?
Tim - Winning a title my first year of 4.0 was pretty great after getting shit for the Ellis trade. In 5.0, winning a title after LeBron retired was great to prove to everyone that I could do it without a generational player (even though I'd won it before drafting him too). Winning a pair of titles in 6.0 has been pretty great, probably due to recency bias but also because Ankly is a douchebag and said I'm an F-tier GM.
Delap - Not my favorite, because I’m not really sure what that is… but I will share my distinct memories of first joining. Soup was in his last season as commish (though I didn’t know that yet). He was yelling at people in shout. I came to claim the Magic (Magic and Sonics were both open), but then MJ showed up the next day and wanted the Magic, and since he had been around before he was given the Magic and I got the Sonics. I was so confused by everything going on and I got about 5-6 PMs telling me what to do and how to play the game. It was re-signings time and everyone told me I had to re-sign Valanciunas (I did), but the rest of my team was garbage. Then I got a PM from ank offering advice and help and a few more PMs specifically telling me not to trust ank. I still don’t to this day.
Majic - Easily winning your first title is the best feeling, I had signed Ronald Savage in my first offseason and paired him with Steph Curry and Stromile Swift to win the title. At that time I had no idea what I was doing and even forgot that playoffs were going on that day. It took Druce texting me a congratulations that I remembered it. Other than that, I think my first title in 5.0 was my favorite memory. It was the first title I won where I built the team.
BK - My favorite 5.0 memory is all the play-by-plays eric would do when lebron got hurt
Heebs - 4.0 was pretty fun. Probably when a bunch of GMs cyber bullied rv and Soup held the entire league accountable until those responsible were identified. That is proper leadership.
The power hours and live podcasts were also cool. The fact you could listen to the pods in real time and call in was pretty cool.
Dirt - Ummm Odin taking Magic Johnson away from me so MJ could stay in the league. It's memorable because what the fuck why would he do that? lol. I also kind of understand he should have just kept it secret though. I have no hard feelings over it at this point. If i recall i did get it least 1 ring with Magic before he left after his quick four years.
8) If you had to rank the 3 primary iterations of the league, 4.0, 5.0 and 6.0, how would you rank them? (if you were not around for one of them then rank the ones you were). Why did you rank them this way?
Tim - 6.0 has been the best as it took most of the positive learnings from 5.0 and kept them going, but with a larger contingent of GMs. I enjoyed 5.0 a ton, obviously due to my success but also because it changed player caps to make multiple team builds feasible and got rid of tanking as the only means of team building. 4.0 was good for me to get my feet wet and while it was fun, I'm not sure I would've hung around as long if tanking for an outside team was the only way to build a team.
Delap -
1. 6.0
2. 4.0
3. 5.0
5.0 just never had the staying power and excitement that 6.0 did at the start. I really think the overall ecosystem of the league in 6.0 is the strongest, though it is suffering from a GM shortage right now. 4.0 was the wild west in all the worst and best ways. I was awful at my job in 4.0, but I tried and I think 20s was a great commish given his non-robot/human nature.
Majic -
1) 5.0 - This was the iteration where I experienced the most sustained success and generally didnt run into alot of bad luck
2) 6.0 - its been steady but I have not yet broken through in terms of winning. Also have run into some bad luck a few times
3) 4.0 - I knew the least and was just sort of around, it was alot of fun though to get into the league overall
BK -
6.0
4.0
5.0
6.0 has been the best even though it has been all wheel
4.0 was great i liked the weighted lotto but the consistency issues at the end sucked
5.0 was probably the worst iteration. half of it was the stupid unweighted lotto and the other half was a stupid wheel. don't get me started on rookie fa.
Heebs - 4.0 because it was new and the most fun. 6.0 is sort of the evolved masterpiece of sim. 5.0 was short for me and in general I don't have positive memories of it.
Dirt - Umm it's hard because 4.0 and 6.0 are so different. I liked the wheel because i could tank for 3 years try for FA and go from there. I do think 6.0 has alot more strategy to it and you have to be a little more patient with how you rebuild. It's easy to go all in and then your just stuck in the mud for a couple months waiting around on a pick to roll over.
With that said I do think I like 6.0 more but I like the 4.0 GMs better. TXIA.
9) Of all the title teams you have experienced between 4.0, 5.0 and 6.0, which one is the most memorable? Can be for good or bad reasons.
Tim - I wish I could say the first I won in 4.0, but I was in Saskatchewan for the Memorial Cup and barely knew what was going on. I think Fecta was more excited about it than me.
I'll say my first title in 6.0 was the most memorable as we had some GMs return to the league and scoff at the quality of GMing talent in 5.0, so winning against them was extra satisfying.
Delap - I won 2 titles in 5.0 and have won once in 6.0… and your first is always the best. My team simleague.site/TMBSL5/2019/rosters/roster16.htm was fun, had the Plastic Man being the OG Glue Guy and Kyrie still on his rookie deal. Trade deadline deal that sent away Paul George for Boogie Cousins really upped the ceiling of the team. What a squad.
Majic - Again, my first title team in 5.0 was probably my favorite but the second title team was probably my most memorable. That team featured an insane front court of peak Dwight Howard, David Robinson and Emeka Okafor. I somehow lucked into winning the title with AI playing PG on an MLE. It was a well run team that took time to put together and I enjoyed it.
BK - Gotta be my first title in 5.0, especially with how much tim whined that lebron got hurt, how dare that happen sometimes!
Heebs - Probably my first 4.0 title. It happened while I was playing D&D with my other neckbeard friends and we all had a celebratory shot when the Nets finally cut down the . . . nets.
Dirt - My most memorable is obviously 2.0 because that was my first title. I remember trading a max FA i just signed for Dr.J to Ank when he first joined the league. Dr.J and Ben McLemore went bonkers in TC. Obviously my memory is kind of shit but my first 6.0 title was very special to me. I honestly didn't think I had it in me to win a title with the wheel. I don't have enough patience but sometimes you win the lotto. I do think Mason/Ike/KAT/LeBron/Huckaby was a filthy line up and deserved to win a title. LBJ wasn't even fully formed just yet and still swept the finals.
10) 5.0 Lebron vs 6.0 Lebron.. who wins in a 1 on 1 game to 11?
Tim - This is really fun to think about, but I have to go with my 5.0 version of LeBron, strictly due to personal bias and not actual performance. It's crazy to look back and see that, as similar as they are statistically, 6.0's version actually averages almost a half block more per game than 5.0's. This LeBron has won titles in four of his first seven seasons, whereas in 5.0 he only won in three of his first seven
Delap - 5.0 LBJ ended up as a 6’11” SF monster whose rebounding and stealing were much stronger and was probably a better overall scorer. 6.0 LeBron’s only advantage is shot blocking. I’ll take 5.0 in a single game to 11 and in 6 games in a best-of-seven series. It’s close, but 5.0 was better.
Majic - I think that 6.0 wins in a closely contested game as I think he is the better two way player. The scoring output seems to be equal across the board and 5.0 Lebron might have a tiny edge in rebounding but 6.0 LBJ is a hare better with his TO’s. The biggest difference is the defense as 6.0 Lebron blocks a much larger number of shots. That defensive advantage is what ultimately breaks a very close tie and puts 6.0 LBJ over the top. At the end of the day both will go down as the best players in either iteration, making the build up to 7.0 LBJ fun to watch.
BK - I was talking to chap about this the other day and was assuming 5.0 lebron was way better, but I pulled up his career stats and they were a little dissapointing, though I know he had a small fall-off at the end. At this point I think 6.0 Lebron may have the better career.
Heebs - I didn't experience 5.0 Lebron, but if he was better than 6.0 Lebron, that is absurd
Dirt - I would think it's 5.0 with all the hype he gets but I really can't answer this question. After Eric said I didn't make the finals in the test sim i might just yolo and add a +6 to LBJ to make him A+ and try get my 3rd in a row.
1) Favorite 4.0 or 5.0 player that never turned into a good player in 6.0?
Tim - I wasn't in 4.0 all that long, but I won the title my first year. Lonzo was the obvious best player on that team, but almost as soon as I joined I swapped a first round pick and a couple of guys with good potential for Monta Ellis (with Fecta's help). I got a lot of shit for that one and it immediately became clear what the league was going to be like. Once I won the title, I felt like that trade was justified as Bruns hadn't won a title with that squad (or maybe any squad?). Anyway, Ellis has sucked for the most part in both 5.0 and 6.0 and while I didn't care for him in real life, I'd have a soft spot for him in sim.
Delap - Marcus Taylor or Alfredrick Hughes. Hughes was the best player (I think?) I ever had in 4.0, when I never got close to being a competitive team. He was a scoring machine (40ppg ish) and a TO machine (3.5/game or more)… but man was he fun. He was trash-ish in 5.0 and then trash again (12.8 career win shares) in 6.0. He only got that many because he played for me and I was loyal to his antecedent… he was a SG who just never managed to shoot well. Marcus Taylor was an MVP PG for me in 5.0 only because Druce pumped him all full of potential and was in a happy mood where he let us ask the commish questions as a birthday present. He basically divulged that 3 certain PGs in the draft might be hidden boom players, and I went with Taylor and got it right. He went +5 in a TC in his late 20s. He was great. In 6.0… not so much.
Majic - Amare Stoudemire would be my choice. Amare was an absolute stud on my first 5.0 title team and a force down low. In my title year he averaged 28ppg, 13.5rpg while shooting 52%, 91% and 41%, just a monster on the offensive end of the floor. I had high expectations for him coming into 6.0 but he never showed any growth. He never really got a lot of play time and soon after his rookie deal he just toiled away. I would love to have seen the 5.0 version on any of my teams in 6.0, he would have been a force.
BK - Tim Thomas, he was an all-time great in 4.0 but never could put it together after eric became commissioner. I wonder why
Heebs - I don't have a good answer for this question so I'm not going to provide a bullshit answer. If Georges Niang had been in 6.0, he'd almost certainly be the answer because he won't be nearly as good. Also Billy Donovan. He was a beast in 4.0.
Dirt - Umm i can't remember that far back. I will just say it sucks Penny and MJ just turned into MLE type players. I tried my damnest to get MJ to be a starting caliber 2 guard but honestly his TCs were just trashy as hell...MJ is the goat not LBJ when it comes to IRL NBA. And I said that shit.
2) What change from 4.0 or 5.0 to 6.0 do you like the best?
Tim - The removal of skill camps and reward camps in favor of more customizable upgrades. The addition of scouting - I knew I'd love rookie scouting but I've appreciated on-roster scouting a lot more than I thought I would too. And, of course, the wheel.
Delap - The regularity of the schedule… or the cruel, unrelenting death march of the schedule… is great. I appreciate consistency more than almost anything else in life (there’s a reason I live in the same place I was born). It took us a while and a near sim-league-death experience post-Odin’s reign… but we got it going well. I think we’ve gotten to a pretty solid balance in the position groups as well, though the vagaries of the draft, etc. may be swinging away from bigs at the moment (save us Bill Walton and David Robinson!). We’re veering back (imo) to the 4.0 meta of PGs matter more than anything and outside-offense rules… which is far different than the early 6.0 big domination… but again, it could just be the players we have right now, and that’s fine.
Majic - Overall I thinkt he player balancing has been the best we have seen. 4.0 playing style resulted in every team looking the exact same and there was not differentiation in team building. 5.0 offset that pretty nicely but I think it skewed a little too much to an inside offense being the meta for the majority. 6.0 has resulted in a number of different team building techniques and both inside and outside offenses have been able to succeed. I think thats a huge win overall for GMs to build how they see fit.
BK - Scouting is cool and adds to the fun of the draft, imo. On roster scouting is a bit less interesting to me and kind of dumb.
Heebs - The wheel. It's the single best thing about 6.0. I also really like the fact that shown potential reflects actual potential, but I would really like if there was more variability within the potentials (e.g., C non-profile players have 42 + d12 actual potential).
Dirt - I think when you're using the wheel it's extremely important to be able to scout. I really enjoy Eric sharing the full build with scouting. It's good to know that you can search for what you like when you're at the top of the draft. It also keeps him honest knowing what he's building from year to year.
3) What change from 4.0/5.0 to 6.0 do you like the worst?
Tim - "The wheel." - Majic, almost certainly
While I do see it as somewhat of a necessity now, I'm not as big on all of the free currency handed out through different means. Some I feel are justified (DC rewards), but it's possible to get by now without contributing much content to the league (Ward did this for all of 5.0 and was a contender for the entire iteration). If you want to have unlimited scouting and the ability to buy upgrades from other GMs or add currency to trades, sure, you'll need to participate in the occasional RT, but I don't believe those things are absolutely necessary to be competitive.
Delap - I like disclosure of stats/attributes… but sometimes I feel like we have run it into the ground and there just isn’t the variation I want to see in teams. This isn’t a 4.0 – 6.0 thing as much as a “we should experiment with a newer iteration of the software thing”… but whatever. I do miss the crazy hidden potential of some 2nd round types from previous draft masters… that might be the worst thing I say about eric’s regime.
Majic - Tim is correct in that I dislike the wheel the most, but I am going to pivot a bit and discuss something else. Overall I think the biggest change that I dislike is the way prospects are built. I get it from eric’s perspective, it makes it easier for him to build the draft classes and makes things alot more efficient. I do think it makes things a bit stale when drafting and leaves alot up to TC to determine how good a player will be. I remember previous Commissioners discussing how they liked to create a true hidden gem that when discovered would be a nice find. Its possible with scouting so prevalent this wouldnt really be possible but I think varying the way players are built would make the draft a bit more exciting.
BK - Losing create-a-player, I really want to pay money and create players, why do we not do that anymore?
Heebs - I don't like the resigning contract adjustments. But that's pretty nit picky. Really it's just the change I like the least. It's probably overall a positive.
Dirt - Obviously it's the wheel. I think the lotto is where it's at it. You're not handicapped if you get a Chris mihm like draft. You can always just turn around and tank again for a better player. It will also allow the top teams to not be as competitive in trade talks for elite players. There is no way in the world I could have traded for Dwight Howard if we ran lotto. The Mavs draft picks would be worthless.
4) What lesson did you learn from 4.0 or 5.0 that have helped you in your time as a GM in 6.0?
Tim - I was only in 4.0 for something like seven or eight seasons and the last four of those were pretty dead, so it was almost entirely a time to get my feet wet. I learned a lot about other GMs (Ankly is scumbag, Heebs will only trade 1.4s for 1.1s, etc.) and then a lot about mechanics (e.g. the value of shot blocking), but the changes we made to player caps in 5.0 completely altered how teams could be constructed moving forward.
Delap - I think we’ve learned that stars matter. This mirrors real life… but if you don’t have star power, you aren’t competing. A deep/evenly talented team is nice, but the stars are the ones that will propel you to a title. We’ve really only had a couple of teams win a title without a HOFer so far and those were all early teams (like the ’01 Grizz or the ’07 Suns). You gotta have a star… so build for that moment.
Majic - We had wheel for a good majority of 5.0 but I don't recall anyone really working to cluster their picks around their wheel allotment. I think a huge opportunity that alot of 6.0 GMs have used is the strategy of grouping high picks around each other. I have done it a couple times now and I know when other GMs have gone through rebuilds or re-tools they have looked to do the same. I think it provides some excitement to build up to a cluster of high draft picks, it gives you more chances to hit.
BK - ank =
Heebs - Shown defense is the only thing that matters.
But seriously, I feel like I'm constantly evolving and trying new things. Very unsuccessfully apparently.
Dirt - I've always believed the Ank 20s way with defensive bigs and scoring wings to get to the finals. I think it's just too difficult to find now days so i decided to try and become the best offense every year instead. So far it's been doing well for me. I will say cheating with the software has been a big help in my accomplishments
5) If you were to bring 1 player from your 4.0 or 5.0 team and drop them onto your current team, who would it be and why?
Tim - Lonzo Ball because he was ridiculously good. I can't remember how to access old 4.0 roster pages, but I'm pretty sure he averaged something like 30 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and a block per game on very good pts/tsa. He'd make 6.0 Kyrie look like a G-Leaguer.
Delap - 5.0 Kyrie is the easy answer, but I’ll skip that. I’ll instead look at George Gervin (http://simleague.site/TMBSL5/2050/players/player390.htm) and point to the fact that he could absolutely destroy in an outside-league right now and probably be the 2nd-best wing in the league right now.
Majic - 4.0 peak Gilbert Arenas was an absolute monster. He was elite in every phase of the game and provides amazing scoring while also locking down on defense. If I could drop him into my current team it would immediately push me to a higher level.
BK - Majestic Mapp, what an awesome point guard that I would absolutely love to have right now. Honorary shoutout to Patrick Ewing and Estaban Weaver.
Heebs - Georges Niang. My wings suck. Also I had some wing in 4.0 that blocked a TON of shots. Basically a 4.0 Thybulle. I guess I'd like him, too.
Dirt - You can just give me Magic Johnson and i'll throw him at wing and be good to go. He was a great player that i didn't get to keep long enough in my sim career. I wish i could remember more of 4.0 but i guess I've smoked too much pot and drank too much alcohol to have a better answer here.
6) Of these commissioners, rank them in how much you liked how they ran the league: Odin, Soup, 20's, Druce, Heebs, Eric.
Tim -
1. Eric
2. 20s
3. Druce
4. Heebs
5. Odin
I can't rank Soup as I wasn't around for his tenure, but Eric has easily been the best with consistency, transparency, and keeping the league running along smoothly.
20s was the first commish I had so I'll have a soft spot for him and, as I recall, he answered a few PMs early on that helped a ton. For my first few seasons, he was very consistent as well.
I appreciated Druce's brief term as he kept things going when no one wanted to and would bring his wife's laptop with him to various places to make sure sims could happen, even if they weren't at the same time every day.
Heebs' tenure is one I barely remember. 4.0 was nearly dead when he took over and I don't think he had an issue providing the killing blow. He didn't seem to enjoy commishing much so I don't think he'd be offended by the low grade.
Odin's terms were way too inconsistent for me. It led to a pretty significant collapse in 5.0, days (weeks?) without sims without any explanation, player build edits without explanation, and so on. His start to 5.0 was very positive as he made a lot of helpful changes we're still using.
Delap -
1. eric
2. 20s
3. druce
(big gap)
4. odin
5. soup
n/a: I don’t think I was ever around when Heebs was the commish, was I? Was he the commish before Soup? I’m not ranking him.
Majic -
1) Eric - easily the best and most consistent commish we have had. There are things I would like him to improve with but I wouldn't trade him for anyone else.
2) 20’s - he was the primary commish for me as I learned the software in 4.0. I thought he provided some really good leadership and kept things stable
3) Odin - overall odin was a bit erratic and inconsistent but he also was willing to try new things. I liked that about him and appreciate his work to get 5.0 off the ground
4) Druce - very short and created some super draft classes, her was there when we needed him
5) Heebs - very short run at the end of 5.0, he kept things going for us at the very end and that was appreciated
6) Soup - didn't get a ton of time with him as a commish but he was a bit difficult to deal with at times.
BK -
Eric - best overall commissioner, I'm a communist who values timeliness and efficiency over human emotion
20s - would actually be above eric for commissioner without him taking like 5 months to admit he'd basically quit and actually do it, in that time the league died
(Not having had soup as commissioner I'd guess he would end up slotting in right here) - would join a soup commished league 100% i bet he's great
Odin - A good commissioner with fun quirks, but also who knows when you'll get a sim and who knows if odin will disappear and also delete the league file for lulz
Druce - made fecta win 5/6 rings by making stupidly OP classes relative to the players in the league, this is what coined the now-famous saying 'druced it up'
Heebs - did what druce did but so poorly the league actually died
Heebs - Eric, 20s, Odin, Soup. I don't remember Druce - I think I was checked out at that point.
Dirt - I didn't play with 20s Druce or Heebs as commissioner. I feel like they would have been just as fine and probably better than Odin. I think Odin played around alot and was a little more inconsistent than Eric. I could be wrong but I thought Druce didn't have hidden pot the same as legit pot for the draft prospects. That would have sucked. I will say Eric is my favorite commision because he doesn't favor GMs. There is a deadline and thats that.
7) Favorite 4.0 or 5.0 memory? Why is it so memorable?
Tim - Winning a title my first year of 4.0 was pretty great after getting shit for the Ellis trade. In 5.0, winning a title after LeBron retired was great to prove to everyone that I could do it without a generational player (even though I'd won it before drafting him too). Winning a pair of titles in 6.0 has been pretty great, probably due to recency bias but also because Ankly is a douchebag and said I'm an F-tier GM.
Delap - Not my favorite, because I’m not really sure what that is… but I will share my distinct memories of first joining. Soup was in his last season as commish (though I didn’t know that yet). He was yelling at people in shout. I came to claim the Magic (Magic and Sonics were both open), but then MJ showed up the next day and wanted the Magic, and since he had been around before he was given the Magic and I got the Sonics. I was so confused by everything going on and I got about 5-6 PMs telling me what to do and how to play the game. It was re-signings time and everyone told me I had to re-sign Valanciunas (I did), but the rest of my team was garbage. Then I got a PM from ank offering advice and help and a few more PMs specifically telling me not to trust ank. I still don’t to this day.
Majic - Easily winning your first title is the best feeling, I had signed Ronald Savage in my first offseason and paired him with Steph Curry and Stromile Swift to win the title. At that time I had no idea what I was doing and even forgot that playoffs were going on that day. It took Druce texting me a congratulations that I remembered it. Other than that, I think my first title in 5.0 was my favorite memory. It was the first title I won where I built the team.
BK - My favorite 5.0 memory is all the play-by-plays eric would do when lebron got hurt
Heebs - 4.0 was pretty fun. Probably when a bunch of GMs cyber bullied rv and Soup held the entire league accountable until those responsible were identified. That is proper leadership.
The power hours and live podcasts were also cool. The fact you could listen to the pods in real time and call in was pretty cool.
Dirt - Ummm Odin taking Magic Johnson away from me so MJ could stay in the league. It's memorable because what the fuck why would he do that? lol. I also kind of understand he should have just kept it secret though. I have no hard feelings over it at this point. If i recall i did get it least 1 ring with Magic before he left after his quick four years.
8) If you had to rank the 3 primary iterations of the league, 4.0, 5.0 and 6.0, how would you rank them? (if you were not around for one of them then rank the ones you were). Why did you rank them this way?
Tim - 6.0 has been the best as it took most of the positive learnings from 5.0 and kept them going, but with a larger contingent of GMs. I enjoyed 5.0 a ton, obviously due to my success but also because it changed player caps to make multiple team builds feasible and got rid of tanking as the only means of team building. 4.0 was good for me to get my feet wet and while it was fun, I'm not sure I would've hung around as long if tanking for an outside team was the only way to build a team.
Delap -
1. 6.0
2. 4.0
3. 5.0
5.0 just never had the staying power and excitement that 6.0 did at the start. I really think the overall ecosystem of the league in 6.0 is the strongest, though it is suffering from a GM shortage right now. 4.0 was the wild west in all the worst and best ways. I was awful at my job in 4.0, but I tried and I think 20s was a great commish given his non-robot/human nature.
Majic -
1) 5.0 - This was the iteration where I experienced the most sustained success and generally didnt run into alot of bad luck
2) 6.0 - its been steady but I have not yet broken through in terms of winning. Also have run into some bad luck a few times
3) 4.0 - I knew the least and was just sort of around, it was alot of fun though to get into the league overall
BK -
6.0
4.0
5.0
6.0 has been the best even though it has been all wheel
4.0 was great i liked the weighted lotto but the consistency issues at the end sucked
5.0 was probably the worst iteration. half of it was the stupid unweighted lotto and the other half was a stupid wheel. don't get me started on rookie fa.
Heebs - 4.0 because it was new and the most fun. 6.0 is sort of the evolved masterpiece of sim. 5.0 was short for me and in general I don't have positive memories of it.
Dirt - Umm it's hard because 4.0 and 6.0 are so different. I liked the wheel because i could tank for 3 years try for FA and go from there. I do think 6.0 has alot more strategy to it and you have to be a little more patient with how you rebuild. It's easy to go all in and then your just stuck in the mud for a couple months waiting around on a pick to roll over.
With that said I do think I like 6.0 more but I like the 4.0 GMs better. TXIA.
9) Of all the title teams you have experienced between 4.0, 5.0 and 6.0, which one is the most memorable? Can be for good or bad reasons.
Tim - I wish I could say the first I won in 4.0, but I was in Saskatchewan for the Memorial Cup and barely knew what was going on. I think Fecta was more excited about it than me.
I'll say my first title in 6.0 was the most memorable as we had some GMs return to the league and scoff at the quality of GMing talent in 5.0, so winning against them was extra satisfying.
Delap - I won 2 titles in 5.0 and have won once in 6.0… and your first is always the best. My team simleague.site/TMBSL5/2019/rosters/roster16.htm was fun, had the Plastic Man being the OG Glue Guy and Kyrie still on his rookie deal. Trade deadline deal that sent away Paul George for Boogie Cousins really upped the ceiling of the team. What a squad.
Majic - Again, my first title team in 5.0 was probably my favorite but the second title team was probably my most memorable. That team featured an insane front court of peak Dwight Howard, David Robinson and Emeka Okafor. I somehow lucked into winning the title with AI playing PG on an MLE. It was a well run team that took time to put together and I enjoyed it.
BK - Gotta be my first title in 5.0, especially with how much tim whined that lebron got hurt, how dare that happen sometimes!
Heebs - Probably my first 4.0 title. It happened while I was playing D&D with my other neckbeard friends and we all had a celebratory shot when the Nets finally cut down the . . . nets.
Dirt - My most memorable is obviously 2.0 because that was my first title. I remember trading a max FA i just signed for Dr.J to Ank when he first joined the league. Dr.J and Ben McLemore went bonkers in TC. Obviously my memory is kind of shit but my first 6.0 title was very special to me. I honestly didn't think I had it in me to win a title with the wheel. I don't have enough patience but sometimes you win the lotto. I do think Mason/Ike/KAT/LeBron/Huckaby was a filthy line up and deserved to win a title. LBJ wasn't even fully formed just yet and still swept the finals.
10) 5.0 Lebron vs 6.0 Lebron.. who wins in a 1 on 1 game to 11?
Tim - This is really fun to think about, but I have to go with my 5.0 version of LeBron, strictly due to personal bias and not actual performance. It's crazy to look back and see that, as similar as they are statistically, 6.0's version actually averages almost a half block more per game than 5.0's. This LeBron has won titles in four of his first seven seasons, whereas in 5.0 he only won in three of his first seven
Delap - 5.0 LBJ ended up as a 6’11” SF monster whose rebounding and stealing were much stronger and was probably a better overall scorer. 6.0 LeBron’s only advantage is shot blocking. I’ll take 5.0 in a single game to 11 and in 6 games in a best-of-seven series. It’s close, but 5.0 was better.
Majic - I think that 6.0 wins in a closely contested game as I think he is the better two way player. The scoring output seems to be equal across the board and 5.0 Lebron might have a tiny edge in rebounding but 6.0 LBJ is a hare better with his TO’s. The biggest difference is the defense as 6.0 Lebron blocks a much larger number of shots. That defensive advantage is what ultimately breaks a very close tie and puts 6.0 LBJ over the top. At the end of the day both will go down as the best players in either iteration, making the build up to 7.0 LBJ fun to watch.
BK - I was talking to chap about this the other day and was assuming 5.0 lebron was way better, but I pulled up his career stats and they were a little dissapointing, though I know he had a small fall-off at the end. At this point I think 6.0 Lebron may have the better career.
Heebs - I didn't experience 5.0 Lebron, but if he was better than 6.0 Lebron, that is absurd
Dirt - I would think it's 5.0 with all the hype he gets but I really can't answer this question. After Eric said I didn't make the finals in the test sim i might just yolo and add a +6 to LBJ to make him A+ and try get my 3rd in a row.
