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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:18:30 GMT -5
it has pretty much always been agreed upon that we need new camps, and eric supports the idea in general, but we've never actually discussed it for real for real. so let's brainstorm. eric's only limitations are they can't involve the big 3 (inside, jumper, blocks). here are some random ideas:
set 3pt shot to 5
+10 3s (would still be doubled for pf)
-10 passing
+6 orebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness
+6 drebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness
+6 post d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp)
+6 per d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp)
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Post by wardunn on Jan 31, 2021 13:21:56 GMT -5
like the 3s and boards camps.
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Post by 20s on Jan 31, 2021 13:22:42 GMT -5
Set 3 point to 5 seems cheap
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Soup
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Post by Soup on Jan 31, 2021 13:23:15 GMT -5
What about the players that have already had skill camps used?
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:25:34 GMT -5
What about the players that have already had skill camps used? they wouldn't be able to change. |
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:26:12 GMT -5
Set 3 point to 5 seems cheap possibly yes, but a C who insists on shooting at 11% is really annoying |
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Post by 20s on Jan 31, 2021 13:27:49 GMT -5
Set 3 point to 5 seems cheap possibly yes, but a C who insists on shooting at 11% is really annoying So use your upgrade points to lower it or do a -10 3s |
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:28:29 GMT -5
possibly yes, but a C who insists on shooting at 11% is really annoying So use your upgrade points to lower it or do a -10 3s sure. i was just throwing out random examples to get the discussion started. |
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Soup
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Post by Soup on Jan 31, 2021 13:30:24 GMT -5
What about the players that have already had skill camps used? they wouldn't be able to change. I’d want to hold off on adding new things that not all players could benefit from. Seems like this should have been hashed out prior to the season starting. |
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:33:21 GMT -5
they wouldn't be able to change. I’d want to hold off on adding new things that not all players could benefit from. Seems like this should have been hashed out prior to the season starting. better now than waiting 10 seasons just to have the same problem. no changes we make are ever going to be retroactive. after we increased the player upgrade cap from 25 to 30 all of the players in the league had 25 available while all new players moving forward had 30. i posted a thread during the last 5.0 season but it was at the same time you and bankz (and everyone else) decided to join so it didnt gain much traction. eric said to bring it up again once we got settled into 6.0. so that's what i'm doing. |
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jhb
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Post by jhb on Jan 31, 2021 13:33:56 GMT -5
they wouldn't be able to change. I’d want to hold off on adding new things that not all players could benefit from. Seems like this should have been hashed out prior to the season starting. You can pay to reset upgrades |
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Soup
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Post by Soup on Jan 31, 2021 13:35:24 GMT -5
I’d want to hold off on adding new things that not all players could benefit from. Seems like this should have been hashed out prior to the season starting. You can pay to reset upgrades JustinTimberlakestare.gif |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2021 13:35:37 GMT -5
they wouldn't be able to change. I’d want to hold off on adding new things that not all players could benefit from. Seems like this should have been hashed out prior to the season starting.
even if a rule change is decided, it will never happen during the season.
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Jan 31, 2021 13:37:24 GMT -5
I think we should be able to find a fix for those players already upgraded if we do make wholesale changes to the camps
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:38:00 GMT -5
I think we should be able to find a fix for those players already upgraded if we do make wholesale changes to the camps won't ever happen. no changes are retroactive. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2021 13:39:02 GMT -5
I think we should be able to find a fix for those players already upgraded if we do make wholesale changes to the camps
you can pay 10k to reset someones upgrades and reupgrade them
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:40:01 GMT -5
I think we should be able to find a fix for those players already upgraded if we do make wholesale changes to the camps you can pay 10k to reset someones upgrades and reupgrade them
in the past resets didn't include the camps but that could have changed with 6.0 |
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Jan 31, 2021 13:47:05 GMT -5
I think we should be able to find a fix for those players already upgraded if we do make wholesale changes to the camps
you can pay 10k to reset someones upgrades and reupgrade them
Is this currently in place or a suggestion for moving forward. |
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 13:49:38 GMT -5
you can pay 10k to reset someones upgrades and reupgrade them
Is this currently in place or a suggestion for moving forward. currently in place. didnt get used for a long time after we added it but it rose in popularity towards the end of 5.0. you do have to pay for the upgrades again but sometimes its worth it. such as when you get someone in trade and they werent upgraded in an ideal way. or when you -30 passing a pg to try to cut down on turnovers and increase volume but +30 handling was actually better (dont tell bk i said that). |
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Jan 31, 2021 13:56:57 GMT -5
wait you can go negative on improvements?
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Post by eric on Jan 31, 2021 13:59:43 GMT -5
i agree that -10 threes seems more in line than set threes to 5 overall these are good suggestions, the power level seems very in line with current camps. because of that it's not clear to me what people are talking about when it comes to fixing prior players, i would like to hear some elaboration on that I’d want to hold off on adding new things that not all players could benefit from. Seems like this should have been hashed out prior to the season starting. You can pay to reset upgrades this doesn't apply to skill camps, height/weight, or mentoring, only upgrades |
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Post by delap on Jan 31, 2021 14:01:00 GMT -5
wait you can go negative on improvements?
yes. (-) passing is the only one that has been used, though, I believe
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Post by Dirt on Jan 31, 2021 16:06:27 GMT -5
If we do new skill camps I'd be a bit frustrated
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2021 17:55:42 GMT -5
a solution here that we discussed on the pod is to figure out what changes we want to make and then set a date into the future for them to be added. that would allow us to make an improvement to the system and give people the time to plan how to handle it. i gave out 6 camps this season and would prefer some of them have been the ones that are being proposed but i'd rather lose out a bit on some players and improve the system than leave it how it is.
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Post by eric on Feb 1, 2021 12:41:29 GMT -5
here's a breakdown of the WS projected by the mechanics article. since that article uses averages this isn't exact, for example the jumping camp would be a lot better for a high efficiency scorer and a lot worse for a low efficiency scorer, but it gives us an idea
updated with corrections:
2130 +10 3s (would still be doubled for pf)
2024 +6 orebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness
1916 +6 drebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness
1445 +5 strength, +5 quickness
1328 +6 post d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp)
1178 +6 per d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp)
1166 +6 post defense, +2 drive defense, +2 strength
1010 -10 passing
762 +6 perimeter defense, +2 drive defense, +2 quickness
405 +5 jumping, +5 quickness
clearly the new defense camps are fine
the rebound camps are a little high so i would change the strength in them to jumping, that brings them to the ~1500 level
the 3s camp is too high, but if we change it to +7 it goes to ~1500 too
i think this makes for the best balance and gives people more options
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for reference, +30 inside scoring in this model would be worth 14,070
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Post by Majic on Feb 1, 2021 12:49:44 GMT -5
I vote yes
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Post by Odin on Feb 1, 2021 13:02:43 GMT -5
we could probably do away with jumping/quickness
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Post by Odin on Feb 1, 2021 13:12:09 GMT -5
here's a breakdown of the WS projected by the mechanics article. since that article uses averages this isn't exact, for example the jumping camp would be a lot better for a high efficiency scorer and a lot worse for a low efficiency scorer, but it gives us an idea updated with corrections: 2130 +10 3s (would still be doubled for pf) 2024 +6 orebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness 1916 +6 drebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness 1445 +5 strength, +5 quickness 1328 +6 post d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp) 1178 +6 per d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp) 1166 +6 post defense, +2 drive defense, +2 strength 1010 -10 passing 762 +6 perimeter defense, +2 drive defense, +2 quickness 405 +5 jumping, +5 quickness clearly the new defense camps are fine the rebound camps are a little high so i would change the strength in them to jumping, that brings them to the ~1500 level the 3s camp is too high, but if we change it to +7 it goes to ~1500 too i think this makes for the best balance and gives people more options . for reference, +30 inside scoring in this model would be worth 14,070 what would the rebound camps look like with +4 quickness? also, you forgot +10 jumping and +10 lbs |
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Post by eric on Feb 1, 2021 14:15:55 GMT -5
here's a breakdown of the WS projected by the mechanics article. since that article uses averages this isn't exact, for example the jumping camp would be a lot better for a high efficiency scorer and a lot worse for a low efficiency scorer, but it gives us an idea updated with corrections: 2130 +10 3s (would still be doubled for pf) 2024 +6 orebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness 1916 +6 drebs, +2 strength, +2 quickness 1445 +5 strength, +5 quickness 1328 +6 post d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp) 1178 +6 per d, +2 strength, +2 quickness (replaces current similar camp) 1166 +6 post defense, +2 drive defense, +2 strength 1010 -10 passing 762 +6 perimeter defense, +2 drive defense, +2 quickness 405 +5 jumping, +5 quickness clearly the new defense camps are fine the rebound camps are a little high so i would change the strength in them to jumping, that brings them to the ~1500 level the 3s camp is too high, but if we change it to +7 it goes to ~1500 too i think this makes for the best balance and gives people more options . for reference, +30 inside scoring in this model would be worth 14,070 what would the rebound camps look like with +4 quickness? also, you forgot +10 jumping and +10 lbs ~1800, too high the pure jumping one is too efficiency dependent so i left it off, i don't have wins for weight |
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bankz
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Post by bankz on Feb 1, 2021 16:34:17 GMT -5
I say no change on the skill camps.
They worked in 5.0 I don't see the need to move them now.
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