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Post by delap on Mar 22, 2021 8:06:33 GMT -5
It's 3003, let's get weird. Turnover issues that will likely be corrected in coming years/upgrades are really hurting some of this group. Really, outside of the top 5 at this moment, turnovers look like a real millstone for this class at large. 3-10 are a real mess of a grouping and any argument you can make for any of them is probably valid. I look forward to more clarity from the regular season. I can't stress enough... this is preliminary based on limited information, don't get your panties in a wad until the Day 40 update if you feel your man has been slighted.
PreSeason Update/Initial Standings
1. Al Horford - Milwaukee Bucks Narrowly ahead of #2 by virtue of his elite rebounding skill. Under 2 tpg/36, 5th in P/TSA, good volume, 2nd in stocks/bleals. Should be a fun two-man race brewing for the top spot.
2. Marc Gasol - Los Angeles Lakers 1st in scoring, Top 10 in efficiency, low TOs, and 3rd in blocks... Gasol's rebounding is pretty bad though, which seems to be his only weakness.
3. Arron Afflalo - Seattle SuperSonics I guess? Elite steals and low (for this class) TOs on decent efficiency.
4. Greg Oden - Golden State Warriors Just a terribly inefficient player... but truly elite on the glass, defensively, and he doesn't turn the ball over.
5. Daequan Cook - Minnesota Timberwolves Outshone his more ballyhooed teammate in the games that don't count. Very very very good scoring for a rookie SG, given past classes.
6. Kevin Durant - Minnesota Timberwolves Turnovers are pretty bad, but he could be a better rebounder than advertised, which is exciting.
7. Stephane Lasme - Cleveland Cavaliers Who? Could he be one of those pre-season flames that dies? He averaged 25/10 on good efficiency... but no defense and awful ball control.
8. Josh McRoberts - Brooklyn Nets Almost identical to Lasme, but with fewer TOs... but alas, also worse efficiency, rebounding, and defense.
9. Glen Davis - Philadelphia 76ers
A lot like Lasme and McRoberts... but a better rebounder, also bad at TOs. These 3 are basically interchangeable right now.
10. Taurean Green - Charlotte Bobcats Awful TOs keep him from being higher... but the rest of the game is too strong to leave him off entirely. Highly efficient and high volume PG in a league that doesn't have many... not a bad start for Odin.
Honorable Mentions:
Points: Jared Jordan - Phoenix Suns
Wings: Rodney Stuckey - Pittsburgh Pipers Wilson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers Morris Almond - Milwaukee Bucks Jared Dudley - Brooklyn Nets Julian Wright - Phoenix Suns Marco Belinelli - Chicago Stags
Bigs: Jason Smith - Carolina Cougars Gustavo Ayon - San Antonio Spurs Carl Landry - Washington Bullets Kyrylo Fesenko - Portland Trail Blazers Joakim Noah - Brooklyn Nets Sean Williams - Charlotte Bobcats
Herbert Hill - New York Knicks
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Post by 20s on Mar 22, 2021 8:52:43 GMT -5
Interesting, only 5 profile guys on the ladder.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 10:33:50 GMT -5
my panties are wadded af
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Post by TinyTimPig on Mar 22, 2021 11:34:09 GMT -5
Wow apparently Dirt's test sims in Discord are just completely disregarded for the Rookie Ladder smdh
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Soup
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Post by Soup on Mar 22, 2021 11:51:22 GMT -5
Georgios Printezis is taking notes of the disrespect.
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Post by Dirt on Mar 22, 2021 12:06:42 GMT -5
Chris Dick is not pleased
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duc15
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Post by duc15 on Mar 22, 2021 16:50:13 GMT -5
Where is Stanko?
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Post by delap on Mar 26, 2021 7:08:56 GMT -5
Day 40Real competition in this group, there are at least 3 ladder-worthy players who are getting left off in this update (apologies to Aaron Brooks, Arron Afflalo, and Joakim Noah). 1. Al Horford - Milwaukee Bucks (previous: 1)His P/TSA is incredible through a small sample (only 16 games so far for Big Al). 2nd highest raw scoring, rebounds are not a weakness (like Gasol's are) and TOs aren't an issue.  2. Marc Gasol - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 2)Highest scoring rookie, with a top 10 P/TSA, Gasol is 2nd behind Horford only because of his subpar rebounding. Horford is rebounding on a team with other great rebounders... but Gasol? He doesn't even have competition for the boards and his numbers are paltry. Everything else looks great about Marc, though.  3a. Kevin Durant - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 6)
3b. Jared Dudley - Brooklyn Nets (previous: HM)Almost identical output so far for the two SFs, too close to call here. If we continue to see the slight separation in TOs and P/TSA in Dudley's favor, he may overtake Durant down the line... but for now Durant's potential breaks the otherwise toss-up situation.   5. Greg Oden - Golden State Warriors (previous: 4)The next star D/R big, Oden is 2nd among rookies in blocks, 1st in bleals/stocks, and 1st in rebounding. His putrid P/S numbers in efficiency have been improved to merely mediocre.  6. Daequan Cook - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 5)Positional scarcity is a boon in Cook's favor. There simply aren't many highly effective, volume SG scorers, and he looks to be one. He doesn't offer a whole lot else, but his TOs and rebounding #s aren't horrible, so that's pretty good in my book. Affalo's defense is admirable, but he doesn't do it at a level that knocks Cook off the ladder at this point.  7a. Spencer Hawes - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: NR)
7b. Chris Richard - Los Angeles Clippers (previous: NR)
7c. Jason Smith - Carolina Cougars (previous: HM)The trio that I really had no idea what to do with, but I would put all of them just a hair ahead of Noah, so they get this triptych spot at 7. Hawes and Smith are a poor man's Al Horford, with Smith being a better rebounder but worse at everything else (a lot less efficient) and Hawes just being slightly worse at most everything. Richard is a poor man's Marc Gasol, with very promising scoring prowess, but really suffering on the boards. All 3 of these guys pale in comparison defensively to the top spots on the ladder.    10. Taurean Green - Charlotte Bobcats (previous: 10)Day 80 may tell us more, as he is being moved to the starting lineup starting next sim. For now, he's been a backup at both guard spots, which may artificially deflate his real TO outcomes... but he's hyper-efficient and doesn't turn it over. He gets the last PG spot over Brooks by virtue of playing merely a tiny bit of defense compared to none at all.  Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Aaron Brooks - Texas Chaparrals
Ramon Sessions - Indiana Pacers
Mike Conley - Washington Bullets
Wings:
Adam Haluska - Carolina Cougars
Sun Yue - Philadelphia 76ers
Arron Afflalo - Seattle SuperSonics
Marco Belinelli - Chicago Stags
Jeff Green - Orlando Magic
Wilson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers
Bigs:
Nick Fazekas - Milwaukee Bucks
Josh McRoberts - Brooklyn Nets
Joakim Noah - Brooklyn Nets
Joel Anthony - Charlotte Bobcats
Stanko Barac - Miami Heat
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Handsome Pete
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Post by Handsome Pete on Mar 26, 2021 11:22:23 GMT -5
I'll take Gasol's shotblocking over Horford's rebounding any day
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Post by delap on Mar 26, 2021 11:50:03 GMT -5
I'll take Gasol's shotblocking over Horford's rebounding any day If Horford's top 5 in the league efficiency ticks down, it becomes a different story for the top spot. |
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Post by Dirt on Mar 26, 2021 11:51:41 GMT -5
Horford out another 68 days
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Post by Trofie on Mar 26, 2021 12:17:54 GMT -5
I'll take Gasol's shotblocking over Horford's rebounding any day Suck it pete |
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Post by Herby New Year! on Mar 26, 2021 12:28:20 GMT -5
Obligatory Sessions is better than Green post.
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Post by delap on Mar 26, 2021 13:11:37 GMT -5
Horford out another 68 days (and he'll be punished accordingly at day 80) |
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duc15
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Post by duc15 on Mar 26, 2021 16:24:05 GMT -5
Finally a little Stanko love
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Post by delap on Mar 29, 2021 17:53:37 GMT -5
Day 80 UpdateThe update with a giant asterisk... as Al Horford falls off the ladder for lack of games played. We'll see how many games he gets in over the last 40 days to determine his final ranking... but for now, it is Gasol's world. 1. Marc Gasol - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 2)Rebounding is his only weakness, and his scoring is off-the-charts good as a rookie and should only get better.  2a. Jared Dudley - Brooklyn Nets (previous: 3)
2b. Kevin Durant - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 3)Same duo as last update, but flipped... these two will be inextricably entwined for their career... because BK will always say he would've picked Dudley over Durant if he had had the opportunity. Dudley's lead here is narrow and is entirely based on his not insignificant advantage in P/TSA right now.   4. Daequan Cook - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 6)Still holding on as the premier scoring guard in the group, but his rebounding looks to have slipped a tad. If it slips further he could tumble down the list.  5. Greg Oden - Golden State Warriors (previous: 4)Loses a spot because of a decreased efficiency, but he's still the best D/R big in the class.  6a. Spencer Hawes - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: 7)
6b. Jason Smith - Carolina Cougars (previous: 7)Separating themselves a bit from Chris Richard from last update, Hawes and Smith maintain a ladder spot, while Richard slips off because of increased TOs. Neither is a solid defender, but both are very good rebounders and Hawes could end up being an elite scorer.   8. Joakim Noah - Brooklyn Nets (previous: HM)Could the late-bloomer in HS/early college be the next late bloomer here? He doesn't have a high potential, but he is on the cusp of being a great player. He just needs to show a little, teensy, tiny bit more on defense OR drop those TOs a bit OR increase his efficiency. If 2 happen that's awesome, if 3 happen? I'll be eating crow for having him so low here.  9a. Arron Afflalo - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: HM)
9b. Adam Haluska - Carolina Cougars (previous: HM)Two highly efficient, middle-scoring wings who don't turn it over... and play solid defense. Neither will be a top 2 player on a title team, but they are the type of players that swing championships by filling out a starting 5 with real acumen.   Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Aaron Brooks - Texas Chaparrals
Ramon Sessions - Indiana Pacers
Taurean Green - Charlotte Bobcats
Mike Conley - Washington Bullets
Wings:
Sun Yue - Philadelphia 76ers
Morris Almond - Milwaukee Bucks
Marco Belinelli - Chicago Stags
Wilson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers
Bigs:
Nick Fazekas - Milwaukee Bucks
Josh McRoberts - Brooklyn Nets
Chris Richard - Los Angeles Clippers
Carl Landry - Washington Bullets
Joel Anthony - Charlotte Bobcats
Tiago Splitter - Phoenix Suns
Stanko Barac - Miami Heat
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Post by Dirt on Mar 29, 2021 17:56:10 GMT -5
greg oden at 5 is rofl
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Post by Dirt on Mar 29, 2021 17:56:32 GMT -5
KD #1 scoring option on a team full of shit scorers and 18 ppg. hes #2? haha
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Post by Dirt on Mar 29, 2021 17:57:17 GMT -5
sry 22*
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IanBoyd
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Post by IanBoyd on Mar 29, 2021 18:59:36 GMT -5
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Post by 20s on Mar 29, 2021 20:28:21 GMT -5
Two of the top 10 with picks 18 and 19!
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Post by Trofie on Mar 29, 2021 20:29:28 GMT -5
Almond
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Post by delap on Apr 3, 2021 11:36:18 GMT -5
Day 120 - Final StandingsAl Horford really coulda been a contendah... but he chose poorly and was hurt most of the year. I'm throwing him in at #2, despite the small sample size, because he is clearly a Top 2 rookie (maybe even the best one?) and it would be wrong to create a historical record that implies he is not. Congrats to Handsome Pete for winning. skrouse , please send 1k from me to him for his victory. 1. Marc Gasol - Los Angeles Lakers (previous: 1)Either the best or 2nd best offensive player in the class (Horford?), and the 2nd best defensive big in the class (Oden)... 5th in P/TSA, 1st in raw scoring. Gasol's singular weakness remains on the boards, but age should fix some of those problems in time.  **2. Al Horford - Milwaukee Bucks (previous: NR)**Not really eligible under normal circumstances because of small sample, but he's probably the best offensive player in the class and is incredibly efficient (1st in P/TSA by a considerable margin). Could be the star of TimPig's Sophomore Staircase.  3. Jared Dudley - Brooklyn Nets (previous: 3)Vindication? for BK? I am still curious about the long-run, given disparate potential, but for the moment he looks better than KD, thanks to a much stronger efficiency (2nd in P/TSA) and 1/3 fewer TOs.  4. Greg Oden - Golden State Warriors (previous: 5)My personal "what could have been?"... as a coin toss essentially caused me to pick Thad Young over Greg. Risk beat reward. Oden is an elite elite rebounder, a very strong defender, and doesn't turn it over. Very very solid rookie campaign for the man with different length legs.  5. Kevin Durant - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 3)His P/TSA has creeped down and his TOs up over the year... but his potential is high and his rookie numbers are solid all around.  6. Daequan Cook - Minnesota Timberwolves (previous: 4)A one-trick pony, but that trick is explosive, efficient scoring.  7a. Spencer Hawes - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: 6)
7b. Joakim Noah - Brooklyn Nets (previous: 8)Only two spots left on the ladder for bigs, and these two edged out Richards (too many TOs) and Smith (a less efficient, worse on defense version of Noah). Hawes is incredibly efficient (4th in P/TSA) and rebounds well... and doesn't turn it over. Noah joins Oden as another out-of-the-box elite rebounder.   9a. Arron Afflalo - Seattle SuperSonics (previous: 9)
9b. Morris Almond - Milwaukee Bucks (previous: HM)These two edge out Haluska and Yue by a narrow margin for the last spots on the ladder. Afflalo has the build of a future defensive stopper and seems to have a touch more volume and rebounding than the other 3. Almond beats out Haluska by the slimmest of margins. Both are elite at taking care of the ball... but Almond's 1.0 TO/36 is incredible for a player that seems to have moderate usage.   Honorable Mentions:
Points:
Taurean Green - Charlotte Bobcats
Ramon Sessions - Indiana Pacers
Aaron Brooks - Texas Chaparrals
Mike Conley - Washington Bullets
Wings:
Adam Haluska - Carolina Cougars
Sun Yue - Philadelphia 76ers
Wilson Chandler - Los Angeles Lakers
Corey Brewer - Texas Chaparral
Bigs:
Chris Richard - Los Angeles Clippers
Nick Fazekas - Milwaukee Bucks
Mirza Teletovic - Dallas Mavericks
Jason Smith - Carolina Cougars
Tiago Splitter - Phoenix Suns
Stanko Barac - Miami Heat
Joel Anthony - Charlotte Bobcats
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Soup
New Member
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Post by Soup on Apr 3, 2021 11:45:56 GMT -5
75k
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Post by 20s on Apr 3, 2021 11:47:49 GMT -5
75k
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Post by Odin on Apr 3, 2021 11:51:13 GMT -5
a less good joel anthony at 4 with anthony in hm
no hm for sean williams
I THOUGHT DELAP CARED ABOUT BLOCKS
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Post by TinyTimPig on Apr 3, 2021 15:11:12 GMT -5
69k
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Post by Dirt on Apr 3, 2021 15:20:56 GMT -5
69k
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Post by TinyTimPig on Apr 3, 2021 15:24:24 GMT -5
Can you clarify why Afflalo is a “defensive stopper” with 1.14 pts/tsa but Cook is an “explosive, efficient scorer” with 1.09 pts/tsa?
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IanBoyd
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Post by IanBoyd on Apr 3, 2021 15:29:49 GMT -5
afflalo is better than either of my wings.
greg oden is not.
100k
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